>> From the Library of Congress in Washington DC.
^M00:00:06
>> JOANNA PECORE:  Hi, I'm Joanna Pecore and I'm here with some Cambodian musicians and dancers. Master Chum Ngek, Madam Sam-Oeun Tes, Bonavy Chhim and Sovann Chum. And I just want to introduce them, and have them introduce themselves a little bit. So, can you, let's see Necru how about you tell me about your history as a dancer. 
^M00:00:46
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Okay. My name ... Joanna already told, my name is Sam-Oeun Tes [inaudible]. I came into United States in 1970, and I was taught in Royal Palace in Cambodia. I came into United States in 1970; start teaching dance over here, 1972. And we start growing until we come to a group. 19 ... Cambodian American Heritage born in 1980. 
^M00:01:36
>> JOANNA PECORE:  Okay. Nice. How about Chum Ngek, Master Chum.
^M00:01:40
>> CHUM NGEK: My name Chum Ngek. I'm the, live in Cambodia from 1939, I came to United States in 1982, and I start to teach new things. After five years later, I start to teach music at home. I'm go to help American Heritage, and play together and go together and performing in 2004. I have art endowment and start to learn music in like 10 years old, in Cambodia with my grandfather. My grandfather is the name [inaudible], but I start with the Master [inaudible], Master Tong, Master Chu, Master Chum, and Master ... A lot of the teacher [inaudible], the last one. I start to play in group in Cambodia with my group and another group and go to performing in University Fine Art. In 1982, and I go back to my home to help my grandfather and he is not feeling good. I cannot go back to him again. 
^M00:03:28
>> JOANNA PECORE:  I see. Okay. Bonavy, you've been dancing for a while now, too. How did you get into the dance?
^M00:03:34
>> BONAVY CHHIM: My aunt. She forced all of us when we were kids. But, somehow I stuck with it because I enjoy the traditional dance. Also, it helps me to learn about my heritage because I came to the United States in '82. I went through the civil war of Pol Pot. When I came to the United States with my mom and my aunt at age of nine years old, so then to learn about my own arts heritage. It was through dance, different characters that I learned from different teachers through the years. I learned about, I would say, 33 years as in training in Cambodian classical dance. But, I became a junior teacher in year 2000 and now I do instruction with the different character: giant, female role, male role. But, my best character that I enjoy is the giant. It's a very powerful role. But it's just my body is so small, that I still like the giant role the best. Just has so much power and moves, so I enjoy the Cambodian traditional dance very much. 
^M00:05:04
>> JOANNA PECORE:  You're like a Master almost by now. 
>> BONAVY CHHIM: I'm 50% there. Even though I've been in the program for 30-something years, I'm just halfway there because compared to the students at the University of Fine Art in Cambodia, because they train every day; whereas when in the United State, we don't have that opportunity. So, when we train, we train only Sundays and it's not even all year round because we don't have that funding for the program for year-round. So, we're able to train and when I visit home, I'm able to train from the Master teacher from the Royal Palace. So, I have together about 10 Master teachers, different characters, different technique, and I enjoy that. 
^M00:05:54
>> JOANNA PECORE:  How about your history as a musician, Sovann?
^M00:05:58
>> SOVANN CHUM: I started playing music when I was I guess, three. At five years old, I was playing at Carnegie Hall in New York. That was my first show playing the drums. I got into playing music because of my father, of course. Kind of forced in the beginning, which was okay. It helped me cultivate my culture, understand my culture, my language. It was a great opportunity. So, I kind of developed my skill of liking playing music after a while. It comes natural to me. I can play basically any instrument that's in front of me. Now, it's just a passion, it's just hobby to do and I really enjoy it. It makes my father happy, so that's always a good thing. He taught us well, as my sister as well. She also plays music as well. So, as of right now I don't have any other teachers. I only had one Master teacher and that's my father. He's a great mentor and I look up to him a lot. I wouldn't be where I'm at without him. I appreciate everything he did and all the awards that he won. As a professional Master musician, I'm really, really happy for that. 
^M00:07:13
>> JOANNA PECORE: Necru, what was it like to learn the Cambodian dance? What was your experience like learning Cambodian dance?
^M00:07:22
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Yes, it's very, very hard; difficult. I was trained the first time in Cambodia in Royal in Phnom Penh. I have aunt that she Master teacher of the male role. She take me over there and I'm not really quite that I'm sure that I like, but that day somehows they take that ... We go with her and she sit down, watch the movement of all the student dance. Somehow come the music, it's go to your ear. It's just like [Khmer], mean like something coming to your mind. I'm go back home and my aunt asked me, "Do you like? Do go tomorrow? Go back tomorrow?" I say, "Yes." I was 14 years old. It's [inaudible], it's teenager. It's hard to move, flexible. My body was so soft, too soft. The teacher tried to straight my body, make it strong, because too flexible. 
^M00:09:02
>> JOANNA PECORE: Oh gosh. 
>> SAM-OUEN TES: But, it is hard. It's very hard; difficult. The next day, I get [inaudible] and I have long hair, and then dress up like [inaudible], and start dance. It's just come like this.
>> JOANNA PECORE: Overnight?
^M00:09:24
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Yeah. It's overnight. I never think about I can dance. My sister, the middle sister, she's learning every Sunday and every Thursday. They take from the, pick any student they like to learn classical dance or the different class, different school, they came in every Thursday. But me? Never thinking I'm going to go learn, but this, I don't know it's just coming to me. We start and I have 10, 12 teacher. I can go any play with all the teenager, no. Finish all teacher came in, push, cut, got and I got you, you know it's a movement. One push me to learn quickly so can go to the ... with the first group. You have first group, the leader, the middle group, and the third group. I'm on the middle group. She want to push me harder to go to first group. My leg was like this. Shake. The first I dance in Siem Reap, first time. I will learn on three month only. Three months, I will dance in Siem Reap and my skirt was just shake like this. So, depend on the teacher. If your teacher love you, really you go. If the teacher don't really like you, you on the backstage, I'm sorry to say that. I'm really to say ... 
^M00:11:26
>> JOANNA PECORE: That's how it works. 
>> SAM-OUEN TES: It is. This is the way they do in Palace. It's really strict. You beautiful, you good, you flexible, you smart. They push you quick. It's not mean on the back they is not smart. Just the way the teacher like, the love. 
^M00:11:50
>> JOANNA PECORE: Yeah, she pay attention to you. 
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Pay attention to you, you can go quickly. I dance for the President, other president in different country, go there in [inaudible]. I was learning not quite six month, so shake, but it's not for anything. It's just scared to death. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: On the inside.
^M00:12:17
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Yes, inside. After that, the butterfly is gone. It came into United State and just like, Necru, a lot of teacher like [inaudible], and [inaudible]. She's come and join with us. We glad that work out to get a big group. It's very, very difficult. It's not easy to build a big group, it's not easy. You have to know how to pull a suitcase. I told my niece, you become the teacher or Master teacher they call, you have to know how to pull the suitcase out, sewing, put the crown on, be sure all the kid was learning, be sure the kid had the food to eat, everything. Your mind is ... It's not easy. 
^M00:13:25
>> JOANNA PECORE: More than dancing. 
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Yes. Become to the large group, like 50 student. It's not easy to know. Now I'm try to retire and pass to another teacher or my niece, who is strong enough to do it. I [inaudible], she's not here, but I still say to the cameras say, thank you for her help all this time, right Necru? We work out. [inaudible] myself, it would work. I build from scratch, no money, no nothing, two feet, two hand, singer, everything. We don't need Necru yet. After that, it's come to large group and then we invite Necru to get the money. Please, anybody can hear for me about the grant. We don't have two years for grant. Anything help for Cambodian American Heritage to success to reserve a culture. 
^M00:14:54
>> JOANNA PECORE:  So, the organization has been going on for more than 30 years now?
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Yes. Over 30 year since 1980. Now it's year 2017, so how many year? 37. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: Almost 40 years now. 
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Yeah, almost 40. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: Yeah, it's been going strong-
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Yes. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: -and now the funding, because you're non-profit, it's going down. 
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Please go up. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: Yeah, yeah. 
>> SAM-OUEN TES: I have a website, you know. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: Yeah. 
^M00:15:26
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Call us. Joanna, thank you for you, too. You help us all this year. Thank you all the student, all the crew, and Sovann, my niece. I never forget my life. I have award, but it's award for my name, but it's go to Cambodian American Heritage and all of Cambodian art. That's all I can say. 
^M00:15:59
>> JOANNA PECORE: So, Necru you mentioned you had a lot of teachers. What did you study with your teachers? What instruments do you play?
^M00:16:07
>> CHUM NGEK: The first thing I start to play [inaudible] with my grandfather, but before I start to play and I think I'm five years old or something. You know the call, the percussion. I just play and take off from the back, my grandfather. When he performing, we couldn't find the [inaudible]. Say, "Who took [inaudible]?" Took it, forgot to put it back. Later time he come and he find, he ask me, "You like to play music?" I say, "Yeah, I like to play it." All the time when my grandfather taught the music, my house we had two level. The one level downstair [inaudible] here we don't have basement. Downstair we have the whole thing. I play up-ground and downstair. I have stick, chopstick and when my grandfather taught music upstair, I just play with the chopstick. After that, he asked me, "You like playing music?" I say, "Yeah." "You like to play music, when you start you cannot quit." I say, "Yeah, I promise." I start to play around 10 years old. I start to learn music from him. The first thing I play called ... The first song, second song, but you know, it pulls me a lot in the morning, early morning. The water in my country, the cold, in the mornings is very cold. He didn't say anything to me. He call me in the early morning around four o'clock in the morning. You know the kid, four o'clock they want to wake up. They want to sleep, but wake up. I say, "No, I want to sleep a little bit before go to school." He say, "No, you promise you want to learn music. You supposed to wake up early morning before you go to school." I wake up in the morning. He told me, "Go to the river and-
>> JOANNA PECORE: The river. 
^M00:18:33
>> CHUM NGEK: The lake, something like that. We have the water, but he didn't say anything. He push me like-
>> JOANNA PECORE: Kicked you?
>> CHUM NGEK: He push me, kick me like that in the water. I say, "What happen?" He didn't say anything because you know he didn't explain to me about what they do for the learn music. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: Kicking you. 
^M00:18:55
>> CHUM NGEK: When go hit water, my leg is cold. It was like ... something like that. The later time I learned he explain to me why I do like that. I don't want you to know anything about, I push you in the water. The water, the cold. The cold, you supposed to do like that. Music people, we need hand-
>> JOANNA PECORE: Flexible. 
>> CHUM NGEK: -movement. Yeah. After that, he tell me to go to-
>> SAM-OUEN TES: That's a good idea. 
>> CHUM NGEK: -learn of take from the water. Call it ... I forgot the name in the ... 
^M00:19:38
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Grass. Lemongrass. [crosstalk]. 
>> CHUM NGEK: Grass. Lemongrass. Yeah, he took from lemongrass. He put my arm. He put my arm something like that. After that, he goes me to learn in xylophone [inaudible]. And the first time, we don't put the time. The time clock, no. He put the tube, you know the tube piece?
>> JOANNA PECORE: Incense stick. 
>> CHUM NGEK: He put like this one, two, three. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: He marked it. 
^M00:20:08
>> CHUM NGEK: The first time he put like the, when the coming stopped it. The next day they put like this and the second day they put all one tube. He wanted to play xylophone like that, because the first song, they wanted me to [inaudible] and play almost I think, maybe half hour. 
^M00:20:30
>> JOANNA PECORE: That's a lot. 
>> CHUM NGEK: A lot, no stop. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: Oh wow. 
^M00:20:34
>> CHUM NGEK: They make me and after that, [inaudible] Master teacher for [inaudible]. My grandfather, he know everything about instrument. They want to invite special people, the Master people to learn the ... learn for the xylophone. I have a lot of teacher, you ask me, right? We have every instrument, we had Master teacher. I say, "Why? You know everything, why you didn't taught me the whole thing? Why you invited people to taught me?" He said, "No, a lot of people, we have special people to play. [inaudible] is professional for [inaudible]. [inaudible], he's professional for [inaudible]. Master ... I forgot the name-
^M00:21:39
>> JOANNA PECORE: Ton?
>> CHUM NGEK: Yeah Ton. We have a lot of different teachers. Every instrument, we have one teacher. Every instrument, one teacher. When I start to play, really different. It's not from one teacher. We have a lot of teachers. We have a lot of idea. They explain to me, this one, that song you supposed to play like this, but another teacher [inaudible] "You supposed to play this way." Another teacher told me, "This way." A lot of teacher, but I have a lot of way [inaudible] is the way, we have a lot of way to play for the good music. Until I play around in Cambodia, I travel a lot. If not, stay home. Every man came home like at 2:00, 3:00, after the school came from. I go around.
^M00:22:48
>> JOANNA PECORE: It didn't confuse you all the different teachers telling you different things?
>> CHUM NGEK: No, not confuse. Explain small thing, it's not very different. A little different just in the way they play. Every teacher they know all instrument. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: The basics. 
>> CHUM NGEK: But, the special, the one special [inaudible]... I forgot the name of that-
^M00:23:24
>> JOANNA PECORE: [inaudible]. 
>> CHUM NGEK: [inaudible], he's the best one of the [inaudible]. In Cambodia, the best one [inaudible]. I don't want to play the [inaudible] the easy way, but my grandfather know, we need you to play [inaudible]. 
^M00:23:47
>> JOANNA PECORE:  Wow. That's a lot. Bonavy, what makes you continue? What motivates you to keep dancing?
^M00:23:55
>> BONAVY CHHIM: Well, growing up in America going to public school, they don't really teach you about Cambodia, the heritage. All you know is the poverty of Cambodia and the war. They don't know the arts. So, as I was learning and performing with different community. Then I thought to myself, if you don't preserve your heritage the other generation will not know about their heritage at all. I'm grateful for my aunt and Lacru to ... Even though they are in America, they still preserve their heritage so that the generation after us, they will know about what Cambodia is about. Cambodian traditional dance, it's the national dance, the national arts for Cambodia. I follow everybody at the University. I follow the teachers on Facebook because they train every day. Their skills is so, they have perfect the art so well. Every detail and when I follow them I look at their training and when I do have the opportunity to go home, I'm able to go and ask them for help because every teacher has their specialty in a specific role, but they have different technique, so if you are able to get their talent, their technique and incorporate into yourself, then you would be a better dancer. So, even though I've been in the program for over 30 years in dancing the same dance, but I'm still 50% there. So, I don't think I will be able to achieve Master teacher yet until I'm able to learn the other skills. And I try to do my best, but I know there's certain things that I lack in the arts. But, I still consider myself as a student as well as teaching my next generation. It's very important. I was telling a few people here, Americans, the public, young children, I was able I think, a month ago, I was able to visit a elementary school. A third grade class that invited me to do some demonstration. And it was at a urban city public school. Just because I'm just dressed like this, they thought it was amazing. They have never seen and they never know about Cambodian arts at all. All they know, they had so many questions for me and I was so surprised. They had it in their card and they asked specific questions. And it was amazing. Even though, whether you're Cambodian or American or any generation, any children, you need to preserve your heritage. And we need to keep continuing. The arts, music, dance; that's part of what human being is about and different ethnic group has their own heritage, their own culture. And even if you live in a different country, you still bring yourself from where you're born into where you're going. And if you don't know that from where you're from, then you're lacking something. So, in order for you to be a whole as a person, you need to know where you're from, your history. Whether you're American or Cambodian or any, you need to know your history, you need to preserve that. You need to pass it on to the next generation, so they don't forget and they can be a whole person. 
^M00:28:10
So, that's why we continue, we push the other kids. Sometimes as a young person, you may not want to be part of it and you get pushed by your grandmother or mother or something like that, and you do it. Some people might not like it, some people might feel that, oh maybe this is something that I want to do. That was me. Out of my cousins, I still stuck with the dance. It was all of us, everybody, boy and girl. All of us, she push us. Every year we had to come in and get trained. But, all my other cousins, they stop, but for me, I think it's part of me. I'm just so eager to learn and I'm always following different videos. When I see the Master teacher, I mean, they're so great. Even at a 80 year old, I seen one of the teacher that does giant, she's so strong when she do her move. Even though at her age, is like when you see her it's like, "Wow, I can't even get like that." It's in your build-up. Since you practice so long and doesn't matter if you have it. If you have the structure, no matter how old you get, you still can do those moves. You might not be able to do one leg up, but you can still see the broad shoulder and the exact detail of the move. I follow them. She has no teeth, but she still do the move and the giant is so ... I was like, "Oh my god." I show to my student, too. I was like, "Look at her, she's so strong at her age."
^M00:30:01
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Tell them [inaudible]. 
>> BONAVY CHHIM: [inaudible], and then the one that taught me is [inaudible]. She's amazing. 
>> SAM-OUEN TES: [inaudible]. 
>> BONAVY CHHIM: [inaudible], and then [inaudible], and [inaudible], [inaudible], my aunt, and [inaudible]. I have so many teachers. I always want to learn from them. It's certain detail. It's like, you look at one teacher, and then she does the smile, the gesture differently, and then you learn from somewhere else, and it just all together. You just incorporate to your own. 
^M00:30:40
>> JOANNA PECORE: It becomes a part of you, yeah. 
>> BONAVY CHHIM: Exactly. 
^M00:30:44
>> SAM-OUEN TES: The movement is a little bit different. It's much the same, it's just the way they push you, strong or light. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: It's a personal touch to ... 
>> SAM-OUEN TES: The way they move. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: Wow. 
>> SAM-OUEN TES: The technique is classical dance. It's really, really hard.
>> BONAVY CHHIM: Have to be precise. 
^M00:31:06
>> SAM-OUEN TES: If one teacher push you, you have to stick that. If another one come in, you have to follow. You have to use your mind, too. Which one you want to choose? It's like my aunt, my Master ... She's [inaudible]. She is just like a king. If she come in dance, she is like a man. It's a king. It's just like ... 
>> JOANNA PECORE: Wow. 
^M00:31:44

>> SAM-OUEN TES: You can watch her down a chair with her. You can see, she is a king. She act like that. She's like that. She's like [inaudible], she's a female dance. She's Master female dance. My aunt is female for Master male role. She's both [inaudible], a love story. It just like exactly like you've just...
>> JOANNA PECORE: Perfect.
>> BONAVY CHHIM: The real thing. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: They motivate you to do better because they're so good. 
^M00:32:26
>> BONAVY CHHIM: The character because in traditional dance, it's a sign language. It tells a story, so without the moves, with the gesture, with your finger, your body, it tells a story so that the audience, if they're watching and they may not understand Cambodian language or what the lyrics is about, but they can tell the story based on the move. So, if that role is supposed to be a king or a prince, and we're doing a scene that we're going to battle with the giant or the soldier is sitting and waiting for the order, if you're the king, when you demonstrate your power in the shape of your body, in your expression, in your move, it all go together to tell a story of that particular role. So that the audience can see and say, "I understand what that person is doing, because it demonstrate that, that gesture so perfectly." So, that's why it takes years of training, so it's like if you do a principal character, you don't just jump and perform the next day. It takes training and preparation from years, and years, and years to be perfect. In traditional dance, it's precise. Every move tells a story. Every gesture tells a story; expression. It takes a lot of year of training and skill to put into that. 
^M00:33:57
>> JOANNA PECORE: That's why it's hard.
>> BONAVY CHHIM: Difficult. It is. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: Yeah, to master it. Wow. Okay finally, Sovann, can you explain what it's like to learn from your father? What's your experience studying music?
^M00:34:10
>> SOVANN CHUM: It's kind of hard, because I haven't had any other teachers. Like my father said and all [inaudible] and Bonavy said, it's, a lot of people learn from a lot of Masters. Yes, a lot of the Masters can play all the instruments, but not all of them can master one instrument. The benefit of me is that my father can master every single instrument. That what makes me great, I guess, and a passion of it. I enjoy going different venues, playing different arenas, different areas. I don't have butterflies, even when I was a little kid. It just came so natural to me. I just enjoyed it so much. It's very great. It's an honor to actually learn from someone who knows how to play every instrument and actually master every instrument. So, I guess I consider myself lucky. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: Yeah, I would think so. 
>> SOVANN CHUM: Very lucky. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: Very lucky. 
^M00:35:04
>> SOVANN CHUM: I listen to other Master teachers play and they actually want to learn from me. They actually want to learn how I do it. To hear from other Master teachers... because the way we play music is not any other culture, any other way because they play with notes. Us, it's all by memorizing everything. That's the hardest part. Every teacher has a different way of playing, their way. My father have a unique way of playing his style. Everyone loves and learns from him, listens to his CDs and stuff. The benefit of me is, I cannot play music for a year or two, come back and it's right there again. I guess, it is a great opportunity and I'm very fortunate and lucky to have him as a teacher. 
^M00:35:54
>> JOANNA PECORE: It's very nice. Thank you-
>> SAM-OUEN TES: I just wanted to add-
>> JOANNA PECORE: Add something. 
^M00:35:59
>> SAM-OUEN TES: -one more ... I have to thanks to, I think she passed away already. That's a long time with Pol Pot, so I just let them know that thanks to her that's teach me how to dance and now I came to United States, build a group and [inaudible], [inaudible], [inaudible]. I was taught, I was the [inaudible]. I came to United States, I'm the taller one, so then become male role. I can dance both male role and female role. [inaudible], [inaudible], [inaudible], [inaudible] ... [inaudible]. A lot of [inaudible]. So, thank you that's she been taught us. I have ... all kind came into pass around to this generation. 
^M00:37:26
>> JOANNA PECORE: In the United States. It's wonderful. 
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Thank you so much. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: Thank you. 
^M00:37:29
>> SOVANN CHUM: Same here. I would like to thank my grandfather, my great-grandfather, absolutely that taught my father everything. I guess without my great-grandfather teaching my father, things would have been probably different, during the Khmer Rouge. He survived a lot because of the ability to play music, coming here, the awards that he have won. I would definitely like to thank my great-grandfather for passing down that tradition, the arts, making everyone a better person here to preserve the culture that's been lost during the war. So, I would like to thank all the teachers that passed away and everyone that tried to keep this alive. It's very important. 
^M00:38:16
>> JOANNA PECORE: Thank you everybody. 
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Okay, that's all. 
>> JOANNA PECORE: Thank you for you beautiful performance today. 
>> BONAVY CHHIM: Thank you. 
>> SOVANN CHUM: Thank you. 
>> SAM-OUEN TES: Thank you. 
>> SOVANN CHUM: Appreciate it. 
^M00:38:23
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