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>> Grant Harris: Good evening, everyone. I'm very happy to see all of you tonight. My name is Grant Harris. I'm chief of the European Division here at the Library. We're now in the Madison building, but the European Division is over in the Jefferson building, the oldest of the three buildings. The mic is on, all right. Okay. So what we're here tonight for is for the symposium on Italian Americans before and during World War II. The European Division is very pleased to cosponsor this event with the greater Washington DC region of the National Organization of Italian American Women. That's a long mouthful for me. That organization gets all the credit. I like to take credit for things, but that organization takes all the credit for initiating this event and bringing to us tonight three really distinguished speakers. So now a little housekeeping, I remind you now to turn off your cell phones and recording devices for the duration of this program. Also, please note that this event is being recorded for a future Library of Congress webcast. When we have the question and answer session after the main presentations, understand that if you ask a question, you are consenting to be part of the webcast. We hope you enjoy this symposium and the treasure display that we have after that. In a bit, I'll have Lucia Wolfe, our specialist for Italy, come up here and say a few words. Just please know that the collections of the Library of Congress are for you. They're for everybody. These are open to the public. Our specialist for Italy Lucia will tell you something about them in a bit. And I look forward to you all seeing the exhibit, the display afterwards. So by all means, contact Lucia if you ever have questions concerning research and Italy. But before Lucia comes up, I have the pleasure of interesting Diana Femia who is president of the greater Washington DC region of the National Organization of Italian American Women. I made it. I made it. It is Diana who suggested this event to the library. And I'm very pleased to work with you. We both are, Lucia and I both. So thank you. So I now give the floor to Diana.
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[ Applause ]
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>> Diana Femia: That's right, you're taller than me. Well, I don't have to introduce myself, and in order to make it easy for you, we use NOIAW as the acronym for the National Organization. We are an organization that was established in 1980 in New York. It was a group of women who were looking for an organization that only Italian American Women were. Most organizations you will find are male organizations. And so the women just hang on somewhere. But we are the only one in the country that has Italian American women, and I have to say that we have Italiophiles in our group. They are not all Italian Americans. They are other nationalities, one of them sitting right here today. And the reason they decided to start this organization is basically to unite and connect women of Italian American background, and to promote cultural and educational events. And this is basically what we do. And I would say about 12 years ago, they started indicating that maybe we should have some regions. And so we have a region in Rhode Island and we have a region in Connecticut. There's the metro regions in New York. And then Washington DC. We were the first one of the regions to come about. And I have to say, it has been really a great learning experience. I think even for me, whose father continued to tell her that she came from the greatest group of people in the world, the Italians. So it's really interesting. And if you're interested in the organization, I have some brochures here which gives you information on what we are. Every year, at our national luncheon, we give out about four or five scholarships. And they are to young women, either undergraduate or graduate students. And we also try to promote the Italian language. So in promoting the Italian language, we always try to give a scholarship to a person who is majoring in Italian; Italian literature, the Italian language. Because let's face it, we want to promote this. And basically, we have events, probably monthly. We try. Actually, next month on November 7th we're having a tour of the Jefferson building by the tour group there. And we were there about five or six years ago and there were members who told me this was a great tour, "Can't we do it again?" So we're doing it again. And I hope some of you will be able to join us, because it is at 11:00 in the morning. They don't want to do tours at night. And believe me, with the traffic, I don't think so either. But anyway, we are also working right now to start on our epiphany celebration which is where we honor three Italian American women as three wise women, versus three wise men, okay. And we've already actually identified three for this coming year in January. And we generally have an event. It's going to be on January the 10th. And if you're on our mailing list, you will see it. And I will say that our moderator this evening is one of the first ones we had in DC, Connie Morella. She's a great friend of NOIAW and I don't think there's anyone who doesn't know Connie who's from this area. Anyway, if anyone is actually interested or wants to know more, I have more brochures and I will give them to you. And I welcome you. I am so glad that some of you managed to get here. And I look forward to this evening, because I'm very interested in this topic. So thank you very much.
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[ Applause ]
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>> Lucia Wolfe: I am going to be really brief because I want to leave it to the speakers, to the presenters tonight. So can you hear me? And I'm even shorter than Diana. I am Lucia Wolfe and I'm the reference librarian at the European Division who is responsible for the Italian collections. And those are especially the general collections; that is the books and periodicals that are published from 1801 onwards. So just to give you an idea of the scope of the Italian collections, I will say that at large they are 800,000 and more items. Not only the general collections, but also other formats. We have prints and photographs. We have newspapers. We have manuscripts. I think I'm forgetting -- oh, music scores, webpages, sound recordings, motion pictures and I could go on. Linda will do a better job later. So I wanted to say that because it gives you an idea of the scope of the Italian collections in general. But for two years now I've been trying to focus in also on the Italian American collections. It is very hard to separate the two collections, because for a great part in the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century, many of the Italian American books were actually printed in Italy and then printed also in America. So I believe they're classifying and dividing the Italian and the Italian American collections at that point between the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century could be problematic. I have been working with some -- we also hire some wonderful interns and some of them will be outside at the display.
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Mostly, I work with Italian America interns from all over the United States of America. And what we have been doing lately is focus on the Italian American periodicals, one of the most consistent and extensive parts of the collections, of the Italian American collections. But we are also working on collecting data about books and other items in the collection. So I just wanted to say that because in the next few years we will also publish some research guides online. And for further information, those will be very useful to orientate you about the Italian American collections. Two words about the display, I have tried to put together a display that represents the period we are talking about, but I moved a little bit onward to the 1970's and past the 1970's, so it doesn't really reflect our theme completely. But there are various sections. The earliest section is about books by politicians, statesmen, vice consuls from Italy who traveled to America and in general try to do surveys and also record their impressions of the Italian American communities throughout a continent in some interesting travel journals that you will see out there. Those books are principally in Italian because there were a lot of Italian politicians and diplomats who were coming in from Italy and doing these surveys. The next group is education and literacy. I try to represent that, number one, because I am biased as a librarian. Many of the educators of the first Italian Americans were actually librarians. And you will find out some of the books and some of the prints and photographs identify this. So I am extremely proud about that. And I have also highlighted literature and art in Italian Americans' interpretation. One case is the translation by John Chardy of the Divine Comedy. I did not include that in the display because I needed to select. But I did include a beautiful translation of the divine comedy with artwork by Umberto Romano, a very important and particular original Italian American artist. I don't want to go on for too long, but I did want to highlight how the display moves through time. And I included some photographs that also Lind has shown in her splendid book. Some of the photos I displayed are not in Linda's book because I didn't want to overlap. So I hope you will take some time and enjoy and look at the display. And I will be out there to explain and answer your questions. Thank you very much and now to the speakers.
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[ Applause ]
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>> Diana Femia: I would like to introduce you formally to our moderator. Connie Morella, Constance Morella, is a faculty ambassador in residence for Women in Politics Institute at American University. She served as a member of Congress in Maryland's eighth district from 1987-2003. And as the permanent representative to the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development, OECD, from 2003-2007. She was appointed to the American Monument Commission by President Barack Obama in 2010. She is also a caballera official, order of merit, the Republic of Italy. And she is a NOIAW member as well as our 2010, one of our wise women. And she was there with us just about every year at our presentation. So I am giving you Connie Morella who will be moderating tonight. Thank you.
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[ Applause ]
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>> Constance Morella: If I can make it up here without the steps. I can do it. Yeah. Okay, got it. Got it. Well, I want to say to you, benvenito. Thank you for coming. I know it is not that easy to get to a specific building in Washington DC during this time of the evening, right by the capital. But we are in the Madison building. James Madison, the father of the Constitution. And so it's pretty special that we are here. Well, I am Connie Morella and I approve this message.
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[ Laughter ]
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Now you know, that actually comes from Senator Joh McCain's campaign finance bill that he and Finegold had. I was on the House side with Chris Shays where it was disclosure. So that's why you have heard that constantly. But I must say, it's a great honor for me to be here with this wonderful group to celebrate Italian American heritage month and to take an historic and important look back to listen, to learn, to lead. That's what I plan to do with the speakers that we have. I want to thank Diana Femia, not only for her introduction and her comments, but her leadership, the fact that she is the godmother of this event tonight. She truly is. Its genesis, its development, implementation and its reality. So thank you, Diana, for all the work that you've done to make this happen. I also want to thank the Library of Congress. It's very special to me, you know, when you're in Congress, you really do rely on all the different resources. Whether it's the RS or whatever, the European Institute, whatever it is. We rely on it very heavily and we're so proud of it, and I'm pleased that it is now headed by a woman from Maryland. And she's doing a very good job from what my experts here have told me. And she has great professionals working there too, such as Grant Harris and Lucia Wolfe, among others too. Well, my role as moderator is really no heavy lifting. It is to introduce our two outstanding speakers and to allow you an opportunity for Q and A and for discussion after their presentations. It is an honor for me to present them to this August group. The theme, Italian Americans before and during World War II. And it's very timely. And as a matter of fact, I was thinking, having been on the Battle Monuments Commission, this is the 100th anniversary of the end of World War I. Remember, that was the war to end all wars, right? And personal disclosure on my part, my parents were both born in Italy. So I am first-generation. My three older brothers all served in the United States Army during World War II. I was much younger, but nevertheless, my parents would have me write those V mail. Anybody remember V mail? My mother would dictate to me, "I want you to write to your brothers and I want you to tell them this and tell them that." And so we operated that way and we were very proud to have on our window that flag with the three blue stars. Thank God they weren't gold, but the three blue stars all commemorating World War II. So I'm just so very honored that we have this event tonight so that we can look back, we can reflect and we can move ahead. Our first speaker is Linda Barrett Osborne. She's an award-winning writer, editor, book reviewer for the Washington Post and the New York Times, and a senior writer/editor for the publishing office of the Library of Congress. She has received numerous awards, such as the Penn Syndicated Fiction Award. She's authored a collection of books for school students and adults. I love the titles of them, because they say so much about her and how she feels about our country. For instance, This Land is Our Land. Come On In, America is another one. Miles to Go for Freedom is another one. Traveling the Freedom Road is another. And to me, they show her love and promise of America. We feel particularly close tonight to the thesis of the book that she coauthored called Explorers, Immigrants, Citizens: A Visual Look at the Italian American Experience. As Shakespeare wrote, a beggar's book outworths a noble's blood. And I think you have exemplified that so well. And also, what's in a name? Well, Linda's maiden name was Bocucci, changed in the 1940's to avoid discrimination. So I present to you -- I'm going to present each presenter and then I will introduce the other one afterwards. So I am going to present to you Linda Boccucci Osborne.
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[ Applause ]
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>> Linda Osborne: Hi, welcome everyone, and thank you so much for being here. I want to thank Grant and Lucia for all the work they did to put this program together, and of course Diana who is a force of nature when she decides she wants a program to happen. I also have the privilege of being here with Connie and Father Ezio to talk to you about the experience of Italian American immigrants. Let me just explain a couple of things. First of all, I no longer review. I did about 250 reviews for the Post and the Times, and I did work at the Library of Congress for 15 years. I'm retired. What I've been doing since then is not only this Italian American book which you can see outside that I did with the Library of Congress and which is out of print, unfortunately. Although I think there are a couple of copies left in the book shop here. Since then, I've written some young adult books. One called This Land is Our Land, which is on the history of immigration in this country from before we were a country to 2015. And it deals not only with Italian Americans, but with every ethnic group, Asians, Latinos and refugees as a group. And one on the United States in World War I. And I am now working on a book on the history and the meaning of freedom of the press in this country. I like to do books that deal with some of the more negative aspects of American history. And that as I understand it, is what I'm going to talk about tonight. I want you to know that my books are full of the positive experiences of American history. Because I am always amazed and impressed by the way that any group -- African Americans for some of my books, Italian American immigrants -- have overcome the obstacles that have been placed before them to succeed. And so as I say, it's a combination, but without knowing exactly what they had to overcome, I don't think we get a complete history of the United States. One more thing about the Library of Congress, the Jefferson building was put together pretty much by Italian artisans. In fact, a lot of the public monuments in this country were done by people who had the skills who were brought over from Italy. That's one of the positive things in the book. Anyway, I will start now with my talk with a photo. I hope I get this right. Did it go?
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Now I did this -- oh there we go. This is a photo of my great-grandfather, Nicolas Faleri. Let me explain the Bocucci part. My parents actually changed their names in 1941, '42, before I was born. So I was never Linda Bocucci. I was always Linda Barrett. But all of my great-grandparents came here from Italy and I will explain that. This is Nicolas Faleri.
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Yeah, and this is his wife Josephine Faleri who was one of my great-grandmothers. And as I said, the immigrated here from Bologna in the 19th century. Now all eight of my great-grandparents were Italian immigrants. So the Bocucci's, the Moreno's and the Charoni's. The reason the name was changed in the 1940's was that my father felt that he was being discriminated at work. He was working for General Motors, an American company. Anyway, whether that was true or not, it was very common unfortunately for Italian Americans to change their name in that period and to try better to assimilate into the model of a pure American which also included I'm afraid losing the language. But not the food or parts of the culture, okay. Now, my great-grandparents came in the 1880's or 1890's. And I show you these because the story of Italian immigration is personal to m.  You see, they are not just statistics or stereotypes. These are my family. This is my heritage and that might be a good thing to keep in mind when we think about immigration in general in this country and in the world. A large influx of Italian Americans to this country began in about 1870 when most of Italy north and south became united. And although you might expect conditions to have improved, they actually worsened in southern Italy. The country was ruled from Piedmont to the north. I won't get into Italian politics at the time. But they considered the south somewhat barbarous. And they imposed higher taxes on basics like mules and salt and unemployment was rampant. Extreme poverty, that's what drove tens of thousands to leave southern Italy to find economic opportunity in the United States. Now leaving Italy was not easy. It meant leaving home, family and culture behind. It took a great deal of courage.
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Most immigrants, and as far as I know, all eight of my great-grandparents, came by steamboat at steeridge. The average time at sea in the 1890's was 7-10 days. In the 1860's it was something like 51 days. So the passage had improved. Now, passage in steeridge, which is the third and lowest class of travel, is almost universally acknowledged to be miserable. In 1907, a Neopolitan immigrant wrote, "How can a steward's passenger remember that he is a human being when he first must pick the worms from his food and eat in a stuffy, stinking bunk or in the hot and fetid atmosphere of a compartment where 150 men sleep?" I love using direct quotes and stories, interviews, primary sources. There will be a bunch of them in this talk. It's not just me saying that it was tough to cross. It's the person who actually did that. And I see my great-grandparents too, telling you what it was like, what the experience was like. However, nothing -- not even the miserable ocean-crossing -- engendered more fear in immigrants than the possibility that they would be turned away at Ellis Island when they arrived. It's also interesting to me that if you came second or first class, you went directly into the United States without going through inspection stations. It was assumed that you had enough money and that you would never become a public charge, which was a big fear of Americans living here at the time. Okay?
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The new arrivals were most afraid of the medical examination. Here they are being examined for traucoma which was an eye disease which is the illness or disease that sent most of them back. I'm going to have a quote from Forello Laguardia who actually worked as an interpreter on Ellis Island when he was young. "Many were found to be suffering from traucoma, and their exclusion was mandatory. It was harrowing to see families separated. Sometimes, if it was a young child who suffered from traucoma, one of the parents had to return to the native country with the rejected member of the family. When they learned this fate, they were stunned. They could see all right, and they had no homes to return to." Now if you came after 1886 when the Statue of Liberty was dedicated -- that's actually fairly late and Ellis Island didn't open until 1892 -- you were greeted by the Lady. Once you made it into the country, however, unfortunately most Italian immigrants were met with prejudice and discrimination. And this is an Italian family arriving in the period around the turn of the century. Not only Italians, but Jews and Slavs among many Americans in this period. Earlier, Germans and Irish immigrants had alarmed many Americans. Later, Asians and Latinos would. Right? That's a theme throughout our country's history, okay?
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It's politicians, the press and the public, wide socioeconomic variety of people, who called for preserving the United States for English descendants of what they called Anglo-Saxons. Okay. These people who were against immigration by people from many, many countries, called themselves native Americans. This was before we used native Americans the way we do now. This was in the 19th century. And those who opposed immigration by any other ethnic group were called nativists. And I sometimes use that as a quick way of describing people in this country against -- well, Americans who were born here who believe that only people of Anglo-Saxon heritage can become real Americans. These are lodged members. In 1902, they are dressed in what they believed was Anglo-Saxon costume. And they were serious about this. They also felt that the traditions of English government were the only traditions that were worth preserving in this country. Okay, nativists thought that the flood of eastern and southern European immigrants which started in the 1870's and continued into World War I could never be assimilated into American society and culture. Okay? These newcomers looked different, dressed and spoke differently, lived in crime- and disease-ridden, filthy neighborhoods. And never mind that most Americans didn't want them in their own neighborhoods. And one of many examples used to describe Italian Americans appeared in the Review of Reviews in 1891, which called them, "The refuse of the murder reeds of southern Europe." These are my great-grandparents, and this is the time they were coming. Many Italian immigrants stayed in New York. A classic scene of tenements in Little Italy in New York City. And almost universally, they lived in immigrant neighborhoods. And this was partly because they were more comfortable and secure living with others from their hometowns. And of course partly because most Americans did not welcome them in their neighborhoods. Living inside Little Italy's had serious disadvantages. It isolated Italian immigrants from other Americans. They could avoid learning to speak English or adopt American customs. And it limited their opportunities, okay? But here's a happy one. I snuck in a happy one. This is a festival in Little Italy. In fact, I could give a whole other talk on how wonderful the Italian American culture developed, not only in New York, but cities across the United States and even in small towns. Just to give you an idea of the crowding -- well, I'm about to give a quote about the men who lived in Little Italy. This is interesting. I don't know if you can see it. This was also during a festival, guys staying on the streets. The tenements were above the shops. There's a giant candle on the left side of the photograph, and the right. And they were carried in the festivals. So I thought it was a need picture. In any case, whether they were learning English or not, whether they were being assimilated or not, the immigrants when they first arrived worked the poorest-paying jobs and were crowded into the poorest slum neighborhoods. And malnutrition affected children in adults. In 1908, one Italian write pictured, "A little Colavia across the ocean where immigrants returned to their homes, and after a very frugal meal go to their poor beds huddled against each other for little rest. Everyone can imagine how these tired and undernourished beings might easily develop the germs of diseases, especially tuberculosis." Jacob Reese who was a journalist and social reformer noted, "In a block of tenements which totaled 132 rooms, 1,342 Italian immigrants lived. Mostly men, Sicilian laborers, sleeping more than 10 people per room for an entire block." Okay. Okay, in New York's tenements in tiny, overcrowded apartments, women and children did piece work. There's an apartment in New York. There the kids are not working. In my next picture, they will be. And they often sewed garments or notion sequins, feathers, all kinds of things. All the children and the women, to support families.
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Okay, another one with everybody sitting around the table working.
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The National Child Labor Committee described one woman of the hundreds and thousands who did this, living in "a poverty-stricken home and making a pittance for finishing pants." Now child labor was common in the late 1800's and early 1900's and even after World War I, not only among Italian immigrants. For poverty-stricken families, this was a necessity. This picture shows a group -- I have many pictures outside of New York in the book, but here is one of them in Mississippi in 1911. And the youngest worker standing on the box, you can see, is five years old. Okay. Nativists and even many other Americans who were less politically vocal held four widespread stereotypes about Italian Americans. They were Catholic, which isn't a stereotype; it was perceived as a problem. Sorry. Ignorant, criminals and anarchists or labor agitators. Nativists were extremely anti-Catholic and they believed Americans should be Protestant. Here's an example of an altar in an Italian church. This is not Protestant. The idea of fests and celebrating saints was a little too exuberant for many traditional Americans. In any case, nativists also believed there was a papal plot to take over the United States. And I can't show you all the illustrations I have of our cartoons showing the pope about to devour Manhattan. But one of the things they worried about was that Catholic influence would menace American traditions such as public education because many Catholics went to Catholic schools. However, most Italian kids actually went to public schools. I wish I could spend more time on it, but you know, even as late as 1960, John Kennedy was considered possibly nonviable as a president because he was Catholic. So this was a persistent stereotype that covers more than Italians. Now the Italian organ-grinder, which is entertainment during the early decades of mass immigration, became a stereotype reflecting an unsophisticated, even base foreign culture. And the Italian accent when speaking English was mocked. One example, in the silent movie, The Italian, which was produced by an American company that had absolutely no involvement with Italians or Italian Americans, the dialogue appeared to be a mashed-up English, supposedly spoken by Italians. Not sure I can even say this right. "I must geta dee milk or my babe is die." And that's the image that many people had of us. Probably the most damaging and persistent stereotype was of southern Italians as violent. "The disposition to assassinate in revenge for a fancied wrong is a marked trait of the character of this impulsive and inexorable race." That's the Baltimore News in the 1890's. We're not just talking about fringe elements. We're talking about mainstream press saying these things about us. Okay. The strength and pervasiveness of criminal organizations like the Black Hand and the Mafia however, were vastly exaggerated, especially by the news media. Sensational stories fed on public prejudice at the same time they reinforced it. They were more interesting I think to sell copies of papers than Vermini's Capital. You know, a painting in the capital. These stereotypes were exposed officially. In this cartoon, rats -- see them -- representing different countries leaves the shores of the old world. The European leaders on the shore are delighted to see them go. The one in the foreground, the very front in the middle, holds the infamous letter of the Black Hand between his teeth. Soon, the Black Hand became synonymous with crime, particularly Italian crime and Italians were actually treated as criminals. In March 1891, 11 Italians in New Orleans accused of murdering the local police chief were lynched after a jury had acquitted them of a crime. Okay. The event led to the suspension of diplomatic relations between Italy and the United States, the only time in history before World War II that that happened. Lynching Italians was all too frequent in the American south in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. They hold the unenviable record for the most lynchings of any ethnic group after African Americans. I can give you a lot of other examples, but not now with my time limit. Early Italian immigrants also included political exiles who had fought for Italian unity and against monarchist governments, and they were anarchists and workers who became a strong voice in union organizing and the American labor movement. Both were viewed as disruptive and dangerous.
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This picture shows Joseph Caruso, Joseph Ature, and Arturao Juvenicci who were trade unionists arrested on false charges for murdering actually an Italian worker protestor, Anilo Proso, during the Lawrence, Massachusetts textile strike of 1912. Ature was one of the promotors of the strike. According to a Chicago newspaper, it was "chiefly the result of his efforts that 275,000 New England textile mill workers are getting better wages." The mill owners had put Joe in jail to get him out of the way. And the three were kept in jail for several months even after the strike ended. And again, when they finally went to trial, they were acquitted. So they weren't doing the things they were being accused of, partly for political reasons. In the early 20th century, agitation to restrict immigration grew, and some groups were thought to be unassimilatable. By the time of World War I, which the US entered in 1917, many Americans had come to believe that if a person thought of themselves as a German American or Irish American or obviously Italian American instead of totally as an American, he or she would not be fully loyal to the United States. Theodore Roosevelt said that all true Americans, no matter where they were born, should believe in "the simple and loyal motto, America for Americans." And the idea of 100% Americanism left little room for immigrants who could not adapt quickly to American ways. I'm hoping you'll see the parallel in the things I'm quoting without making a big point about it. That's what amazed me when I first started doing this research. The same issues and the same problems and the same language have been used for 250 -- even before we became the United States. Benjamin Franklin complained that the German immigrants -- this is 1752 -- were ruining Pennsylvania because they wouldn't learn the English language and they had their own schools. Anyway, there were many attempts to restrict or halt immigration from undesirable countries. Unfortunately, Italy was one of them in the early 20th century. And the first significant drive focused on passing a law that could keep immigrants who could not read or write from entering the country. There, okay. Massachusetts Senator Henry Cavetlage called for a literacy test as early as 1896. His quote, "The literacy test will bear most heavily upon the Italians, Russians, Poles, Hungarians, Greeks and Asiatics and very lightly or not at all upon English-speaking immigrants or German, Scandinavian and French. In other words, the races most affected by the literacy test are those whose immigration to this country has begun within the last 20 years and swelled rapidly to enormous proportions, races who are most alien to the great body of the people of the United States." Okay. I want to say two things about this. One is that the literacy test did not have to be passed in English. It could be passed in your own language. Two is that women did not have to pass the literacy test if they were accompanied by a man. And in fact, if they weren't accompanied by a man, they were often sent back for a lot of reasons. And the third thing is that it didn't really work, because most immigrants who were coming were literate, even though some were from southern and eastern Europe. Here is a part two. The literacy test, it's actually against the literacy test. The American east -- and this is what the caption reads. "The American east wall as Congressman Burnett," one of the supporters, "would build it." Interesting that it's a wall to keep -- you know. And this is the 1890's. To keep people out. The pens are weapons pointing out. And the roof of the wall are books. It is true that immigrants had entered into the United States in more or less unrestricted numbers. Between 1905 and 1914, for example, almost 9.9 million European immigrants had come to the United States, most from southern and eastern Europe. So Congress sought to establish a quota system limiting immigration by country. In 1921, it passed the Emergency Immigration Act, setting the total number of immigrants from all countries at 355,000 a year. And basing each country's allotment on a complicated formula which reflected how many immigrants of that country had lived here in 1910. Okay. Nativists still thought the quotas for eastern and southern Europeans were too high. They feared that jobs would be taken away from Americans, that communists, labor agitators, other radicals and criminals would enter the United States and too many immigrants could not be assimilated and would change the character of the country. This is a quote, "The old Americans are getting a little panicky and no wonder. America, Americans and Americanism are being crowded out of America." And this was from a reader to the New Republican in 1924. Now Albert Johnson, a congressman from Washington State, led the fight for tougher quotas. He said -- the quote above is part of what he said. He said, "Today, instead of a well-knit homogenous citizenry, we have a body politic made up of all and every diverse element. Our capacity to maintain our cherished institutions stands diluted by a stream of alien blood. It is no wonder," remember, this is talking about Italian Americans, "therefore that the myth of the melting pot has been discredited. The day of [inaudible] welcome to all peoples, the day of indiscriminate acceptance of all races has definitely ended." When Congress passed the Johnson-Reed Act in 1924, it used the 1890 census for the basis of quota elevations because in 1890 there had been more northern and western European immigrants and fewer southern and eastern European immigrants living in the United States. Congress and much of the country wanted the United States to return to its English roots. And that meant having immigrants from Britain or western and northern Europeans be recorded in the census as the largest group in the population. Okay, the total number of immigrants from every country was drastically cut to 150,000 per year with this quota act. The yearly quota for the United Kingdom, which is England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, was 65,721. After he 1920's, the yearly quota for Italians was 5,802 a year. Now Father Ezio is going to talk to you about the internment of Italians during World War II. But let me skip past that just to say two things. One is that Italian Americans served in great numbers in World War II. They had become Americans, very patriotic Americans. And this picture shows women at a flat-raising ceremony in 1942. As for the quota system, in 1952, the McCarron-Walter Act changed the way quota numbers were figured. And I know the details can be boring, but the important thing was it kept the country quotas. And McCarron said, "We have in the United States today hardcore, indigestible blocks which have not become integrated into the American way of life but which on the contrary are its deadly enemies. Today, as never before, untold millions are storming our gates for admission and those gates are cracking under the strain." It wasn't actually until 1965 that Congress passed the Hart-Seller Act, and that eliminated all national quotas and it emphasized having immigrants come here based on family connections to those already here and having special skills. Okay. Finally, this last picture is of Lilian Claire, my first grandchild. And this is an opportunity to show her to a large number of people.
^M00:49:15
[ Laughter ]
^M00:49:17
She was born this year on August 9th. Now I have a reason though. I started with photos of my great-grandparents. Here is their descendant. Lily is the sixth generation of my family story in the United States. You see, despite the language that demeaned Italian Americans and the discriminatory obstacles that were put in their way, we did assimilate. We are Americans. I hope you will keep in mind the experiences of Italian Americans when thinking about immigration today. Thank you.
^M00:49:49
[ Applause ]
^M00:49:55
^M00:50:00
>> Grant Harris: Come on up if you want. So I've been told a rather technical way of possibly helping with this, is to shake this podium a little bit. So let's see if it --
^M00:50:14
[ Applause ]
^M00:50:17
>> Constance Morella: The magic touch. Thank you very much, Linda. I learned a lot from that too, from the photographs, visually and verbally, hearing about and seeing your grandchild too. Isn't it scary when you think about how history is repeating itself, when she talked about stereotyping immigration, the wall, America for Americans? So we have a task ahead of us. And so I now have the great pleasure of introducing our second guest speaker. And he is somebody that we have been looking forward to hearing from, Padre Ezio Marchetto. He has been, as you know -- he's been the pastor of Holy Rosary Church for the last five years. And not only that, he's taken on the arduous task of a tremendous production that is taking place around Casa Italiana. As a matter of fact, I think in addition to his spiritual responsibilities, he chairs the Board of Casa Italiana Sociocultural Center, which is now involved in large-scale redevelopment in this area. Incidentally, it is going to also include the establishment of an Italian American museum. From what I understand from Father Ezio, it's going to be basically Italian Americanism in the greater Washington area. So it will have a specificity which will give it even more pleasure for the viewers. Padre Ezio is multilingual. He speaks Italian, Portuguese, English and Canadian English. Probably speaks other languages too. You know, I've always thought when they say that you are multilingual, like he is, you speak many languages. And then when you're bilingual, you speak two languages. And when you speak one language, you're American.
^M00:52:29
[ Laughter ]
^M00:52:33
But he's multilingual. He has of course as you know -- he studied in Italy, Portugal and Canada. And he's a man who really understand the media and how to get a message across. He's a good communicator, and that's very important. His experiences in speaking, writing, participating have certainly enhanced that. Well, I think particularly pertinent today is his expertise on global immigration. Global immigration. He served as an official observer at the United Nations on the issues of international migration, something certainly that we care about now. So it's my honor and pleasure to present Father Ezio Marchetto.
^M00:53:23
[ Applause ]
^M00:53:29
^M00:53:45
>> Father Ezio Marchetto: Good evening, everyone. Thank you for the organizers and all of you for being here. Let me start by saying what my presentation is not. It's not an exhaustive presentation on the internment of Italian Americans, for two reasons. First, very little material is available. For those who are interested, I have a page and that's all the resources that we have about the internment of Italian Americans. The user entry of Wikipedia, about three books, a few articles, one video and one fiction book. That's all. So there is another element which is many of the information are a little confusing for this reason. As you will see later on on the numbers, one camp says that Italian American internees were 250. Another one says they were over 1,000. The reason is these are a chapter of Italian American history which seems to be forgotten. How many of you know that 55,000 Italian POW's were brought to the United States during World War II? Thank you. 55,000. That seems to be one of those just forgotten, "Let's not talk about it" situations. But let's start with our topic tonight. The title For Memory [inaudible] is taken from the diary of Prospero Chaconi. That's the first page of his book. It recalls all the different moments of his truly statements of the cross, the painful journey through internment. Let's just start with some basic facts. Fact one, between 1876 and 1930, 5 million Italians moved to the United States. 5 millions. Fact two, in 1942, beginning with the war, there were 695,000 Italian citizens present n the United States. Three, during World War II, more than half a million -- some numbers go up to 1.5 million, but there's not a complete list -- but over half a million Italian Americans were in the Army. Now remember, the whole army was about 12 million. So about half a million and over was quite a remarkable number. Number four, during the war, no person of Italian descent was ever charged with, much less convicted of, espionage, sabotage or any other hostile action. These are facts. Finally, fact one, the executive order 9066 called for compulsory relocation of more than 10,000 Italian Americans. And at the same time, restricted movement of more than 600,000 Italian Americans nationwide. So let's take a look now at what happened, how they went there. In the beginning, there was a lot of admiration for Mussolini. Here we have two quotes from Roosevelt. "I am interested and deeply impressed by what he has accomplished by his evidenced, honest purpose in restoring Italy and seeking to prevent general European trouble." He made the covers of Newsweek and Time. A few weeks later, "I don't mind telling you in confidence, I am keeping in fairly close touch with the admirable Italian gentleman."
^M00:58:10
[ Laughter ]
^M00:58:13
It was a time when Italian Americans start to succeed, to be recognized, to reach the level when a community becomes noticeable. And as always, politics is a great indicator of the position in society of a specific ethnic group. It was a time when Congressman Feralo Laguardia, Victor Mark Antonio, Mayor Frank Orizio, Joseph Felioto, [inaudible] Marciano, Jody Margo -- this was the time when they start to be in the news in a positive way.
^M00:58:53
^M00:58:56
At the same time, trouble was brewing in Europe. Roma-Berlin Axis became a military alliance in 1939. Their pact was sealed and they were the three powers, Germany, Italy, Japan. War. A date which will live in infamy, December 7th, 1941. And that's when everything fell apart. What is interesting is that on the night of December 7th, right after Pearl Harbor, and before US declared officially war to Italy, the FBI arrested a handful of Italians. You see the map, and you see the date. The Sanborn Nine. They had a list of suspected dangerous aliens.
^M00:59:55
^M00:59:58
December 11th, the official declaration of war, Germany declared war on the United States and immediately the US president Roosevelt announced America was at war with Japan and the alliance. So Italian dictator Benito Mussolini made this declaration from [inaudible] Rome, the powers of the pact were determined to win.
^M01:00:26
And of course we have the message of Congress, requesting a recognition of state of war with Germany and Italy. There had never been a greater challenge to life, liberty, civilization than that created by the Axis Powers, Germany, Italy and Japan. It was determined therefore to have the forces of justice and righteousness prevail over the forces of savagery and barbarism. So all of a sudden, all the immigrants from Germany, Italy and Japan found themselves as at war with their homeland.
^M01:01:05
^M01:01:08
Again, as I mentioned before, the enemy aliens were taken into custody. Less than two weeks later, General DeWitt commanded that all aliens under 14 years of age be removed to the interior. This had a great effect especially in California. They were expecting Japan to attack the United States from the west coast. So they insisted to move inland all the enemy aliens. Then in 1942 the status of enemy alien was extended to all aliens of Italian descent, which is over 600,000. These individuals were required to register and reregister to the post office. There are four dates that are the turning points. Of course, December 7th, 1941, Pearl Harbor. January 25th, 1942, immediately after Pearl Harbor the Rabas Commission was trying to figure out what went wrong. And some of the suggestions that came back were there were fifth columns within the United States. And January 29th, 1942, we have the first enemy alien relocation that was issued. Then the executive order 9066. So all people were excluded from specific areas. This is the notice to alien enemies. About 4 million aliens, which means citizens who kept their Italian, Japanese or German citizenship. So after Pearl Harbor -- I'm sorry, those were the immigrants at the time. About 1.1 million of these immigrants were still citizens of Germany, Italy and Japan and automatically became enemy aliens. And that's the notice that went around the country, both in English, Japanese, Italian and German, telling them they must register and move out of specific areas. So here we have about 122,000 men and women and children of Japanese ancestry were evicted from the west coast of the United States and held in American concentration camps, the internment camps if you want. Americans with Italian and German ancestry were also targeted by these restrictions, including internment of 11,000 people of German ancestry, and about 3,000 people with Italian ancestry. Along with some Jewish refugees, because they were coming from Germany.
^M01:04:06
^M01:04:09
The major internment sites for Italian Americans were Port of George, Maryland; [inaudible] in Oklahoma for some years, in Texas and Tennessee. The largest number were at Fort Visola in Montana. And here's where the numbers get confused. Because a large number of the Italian POW's were also at that camp. So the numbers go from, you will see later one of the signs that there were over 1,000 Italian Americans interned, but that's not really true. It was the mixing of Italian POW's and Italian Americans. So --
^M01:04:52
[ Speaking Italian ]
^M01:05:19
You have the three languages, Japanese, Italian and German. This is a copy of one of those cards. What was also very sad is this: besides to carry all the time your identification card, there were travel restrictions. You cannot travel more than five miles. They were required to hand over all the contraband, which means cameras, weapons, flashlights that can be used to signal across the ocean.
^M01:05:58
[ Laughter ]
^M01:06:00
And short-wave radios. This was a very sad time. There was an instance on the west coast, a number of people committed suicide. One man went to the barn and asked his friend to please shoot him. Because his friend refused, he walked out and threw himself under a train. Because he had his family there and grew up there, he felt he was American. He felt betrayed.
^M01:06:31
^M01:06:34
All the Italian schools were closed, Italian American meetings became suspected. The American organizations and social clubs were [inaudible], and this is one of the posters.
^M01:06:46
[ Speaking Italian ]
^M01:06:48
I don't read Japanese or German, but that's what the message was. Don't speak the enemy language.
^M01:06:56
^M01:06:59
Ultimately, about 600,000 Americans were arrested. 250,000 were interned. Once you are arrested, you have the right to go in front of a panel that will judge if you were considered to be a danger or not. You still have to carry your identification, travel restrictions. Also, you have to remember this: enemy alien prohibited areas. The fact that you could not go into certain areas means you lost your job. Your business was either you have to close it or walk away. You were enemy aliens. Thousands of people lost everything. That was very sad. Rosina Trovato was classified enemy alien. She was to move out of a specific area, and she received a notice to evacuate, and she learned that her son has gone down with the US [inaudible].
^M01:08:08
^M01:08:11
Jody Mago, his father could not go down to visit his son's restaurant because it was outside the area he was allowed to travel. [Inaudible] that 52,000 Italian aliens cannot leave their homes between 8:00 PM and 5:00 AM. So all those who work in bakeries, they just lost their job.
^M01:08:42
^M01:08:45
There were about 1,400 Italian American fishermen in San Francisco and again, they cannot set foot on their waterfront after February 24th, 1942. And this was the crazy part: the fishing industry was considered to be a national priority. Seafood was providing food for the nation. And here we have 90% of San Francisco being either sequestered by the Coast Guard or left idle because people cannot access the waterfront. Even one of the newspapers said, "Fishermen with 23 sons in the Army and Navy are bound to wharf while boat lies idle, and the seafood is needed." I mean, it was so evident. Yet months would pass before the restrictions were rescinded. This is just one example of how confusion happens. From 1841-44, [inaudible] as a detention center for more than 1,000 Italians, more than 1,000 Japanese and 22 German nationalists. The Italians were the fair workers and civilian seamen, who were bounded at the outbreak of the war against the Japanese. So about 250 Italian Americans were put in internment camps, but the biggest was the curfew and the restrictions. Then they started to realize the Italians were not really so great enemies. And the reason was so many families had their sons in the Army. Over a million, or as some numbers put it, over a million. So try to backtrack. And in July 1942, President Roosevelt started to consider some form of restitution, the lifting of restrictions. And they even said, "Well, we're going to pay you $20 unemployment for each week that you were out of your job." Of the more than 2,500 Italian American detainees, about 300 took the offer. For them it was a slap in the face. So on Columbus Day, October 12th, 1942, the attorney general Francis Biddell, here with Laguardia in New York, signed the document. The Italian nationals in the US will no longer be classified as enemies. It was just a move to help support the war effort. Then we have this, Mr. Speaker arrives today to introduce a bill that will cause the president on behalf of the United States government to formally acknowledge that the civil liberties of Italian Americans were violated during World War II. Congressman Rick Lasio and Eliot Angle together introduce this. So it finally became a public law number 106-451. It passed the Congress, 1997. And these are what the commission that was formed with that law tried to achieve. One, to formally acknowledge the violation of civil liberties of Italian Americans in World War II. Two, to encourage a federal agency to support projects that will heighten public awareness of this forgotten episode. Three, to provide direct national support for a documentary film. Four, formation of advisory committee to assist the collection of relevant information regarding the matter as it relates to public policy matters. Finally, to publish a report regarding the role of the government of the United States on this unfortunate occurrence. It was passed in the year 2000, October 24th with the Senate's amendments. So on November 7th, 2000, the US Congress passed the Wartime Violation of Italian American Civil Liberties Act, and those are the groups that came into this US Congress statement.
^M01:13:43
^M01:13:49
Why isn't this such an easy topic in Italian American history? I'm not a psychologist, but I believe the reason is for Italian Americans, there was some kind of mixed feeling. In one sense they felt betrayed, especially those who were detained, or those who had their boats confiscated or they lost their jobs, families that were separated while their sons were at war. At the same time, they were still living here. They wanted to be Italian Americans. They wanted to be Americans. So for many of the older people, they said, "Let's not talk about it. The past is gone. Italy was at war. They are not saying it was our fault." But they have mixed feelings. Guilty in one sense because Italy declared war on the United States, betrayal in the other because they felt not recognized for who they truly were. Not one single person was ever convicted or accused of any anti-American action. So it was one of those things that is gone, is past; let's not talk about it. But personally, I believe it's part of our Italian American history. So I hope tonight not to give you all the answers, but just to awaken your curiosity. And these copies of the bibliography or the resources are available. It will be a great topic for any dissertation that I hope one day someone will take the time to do. Thank you very much.
>> Constance Morella: Thank you.
^M01:15:38
[ Applause ]
^M01:15:42
^M01:15:44
I think it's a very good point, Father Ezio, that somebody could take this topic on and do all kinds of things with it. A dissertation, a lengthy essay; there's so much that can be done with it. I do want to point out that in 2010, the California legislature passed a resolution apologizing for the United States' mistreatment of Italian residents in the state during the war. Noting restrictions and indignities as well as loss of jobs and housing. I guess California because they were the most affected by these indignities and these crimes. And then a member of Congress now -- in fact, I served with her -- Zoe Loftgren from California, she has presented legislation. She couldn't be here tonight because of course, they're campaigning. Every two years is ridiculous. But the Senate wouldn't change it to make it four years, of course, because they have six years and might have competition. But Zoe Loftgren in the 115th Congress which we still have going on now, introduced two pieces of pertinent legislation, and they are HR-1706 and 1707. Pretty reminiscent of what we had discussed. 1706 would authorize the secretary of education to provide grants for education programs on the history of the treatment of Italian Americans during World War II. HR-1707 would ask for an apology for the treatment of Italian Americans during World War II. I have copies. Her office sent copies of those two bills if anybody would like to look at them. And so now, ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to open it up to questions you may have. I think I'd like to maybe just start off and ask our two presenters if they would like to ask questions of each other, or make any final comments. Linda, do you want to mention anything, or wait for the questions?
>> Linda Osborne: Only that Italian internment during World War II is in our book, so we didn't miss it. There's a whole page on it. And it was not something that I had any idea about until I had researched this book.
>> Constance Morella: Which shows the need for a forum like this.
>> Linda Osborne: Yes. And I thought your presentation was wonderful.
>> Constance Morella: Any comments you'd like to make?
>> Father Ezio Marchetto: Yeah, I've been in North America for about 30 years, even though most of my time was spent in Canada. But it also amazes me how little history is known. A while ago I was talking to some people about Sacrament City.
>> Constance Morella: I was thinking of them, yeah.
>> Father Ezio Marchetto: I mean, such an integral part of so many topics from unionizing to the freedom, but very few people new about Sacrament City. So we have to know more about how history, all aspects, the good ones and the negative ones, because that's in this balance that we keep growing, learning and avoiding hopefully similar mistakes.
>> Constance Morella: Very true. Okay, folks. You came, you listened, let's hear from you. And you know what we're going to do. Because this is being taped, I'm going to ask one of us to repeat your question.
>> My question is this. My parents were born here, but their parents weren't, and obviously my great-grandparents weren't. But I remember my father relating to us as we got older that his grandmother lived in this country. And she had a photograph of Mussolini in the home, and it was a real point of contention between my father and his grandmother. And my question is, how common was that? How common was it for the Italians who were here from the old country?
>> Father Ezio Marchetto: So the question is, how often was it that in some families you still even today find a picture of Mussolini with a little candle in front or a little light? Why is that? The reason is this: when Mussolini took over, took power, he felt that Italians should show themselves as coming from a great country and a great race.
^M01:20:57
Mussolini did a number of very good things for Italy. For example, almost all nations where [inaudible] was present, they would establish Casa Italiana. It would be the cultural center for the Italian community. It was so powerful that in Montreal, in one of the churches, the Madonna [inaudible], there is in the ceiling a fresco of Mussolini on a horse with all the [inaudible]. It's still there. So in a couple of the churches. So people felt that Mussolini was helping them, supporting them, providing them and brought back Italy. It was a period where the mafia controlled Italy across the ocean, came with [inaudible]. So there were many things that were to represent the Italians abroad as coming from a great country. So people admired Mussolini for that. And that's why especially older generations will still keep that picture of Mussolini, because of that period.
>> Linda Osborne: Not only Italians or Italian Americans thought Mussolini was good for Italy. You pointed out Roosevelt had flattering things to say. If you look at periodicals and newspapers from the 1920's and the early 1930's, full of praise for bringing order, for bringing prestige and pride. One of the big turning points in the world was when Italy invaded Ethiopia and used poison gas. Then people began to question. But for at least 15 years, he was considered a positive force for most of this country. A symbol, yeah.
>> Constance Morella: One, two, yes. You may want to also mention your name.
>> Yes, my name is Mary Ann Guantano.
>> Constance Morella: Excellent.
>> My father was one of those 55,000 prisoners of war who spent time in this country during World War II. And my mother and grandmother came through Ellis Island in 1920. So I'm a first-generation American Italian, and probably a dual citizen of Italy as well. My question though regards the social clubs that you spoke about, Father. My sense was that some of them came about because Italian Americans wanted to prove their loyalty to the United States. Or maybe that's the way they evolved after the war. Can you speak about that at all?
>> Constance Morella: Repeat the question as best you can.
>> Father Ezio Marchetto: Let's see, the social clubs that were formed before and after the war. How do they react to that transition period? When the war started, they were looked with suspicion because they were financed by the Fascist government. They sent money and material for them. There is a book, Fascist Activities in the United States. I think it was Lagumina the author. You can find it. Just put the title Fascist Activities in the United States, in Italian communities. So as the war started, all those were dissolved. After the war, there were especially groups of Italian Americans, veterans. Even here in this city there was a very active one for a number of years. So that's how the Italian American clubs and society started again, with the veterans first. Then immediately after the war, groups had formed to help Italy, rebuild Italy. So they were sending everything from clothing to medicine to whatever was needed. So that's how everything started again. So that's how I see it as one of the motivations for starting again the Italian American clubs.
>> Constance Morella: Okay, very good. Excellent. All right, any other comments or questions that you may have? Yes?
>> Will Amatruda. With regard to the sympathy that some Italian Americans had for Mussolini before World War II, during the time when that legislation went through and during their time in Congress, there was an exhibit in -- I don't remember whether it was in the capital or in one of the House and Senate office buildings. But there was an exhibit called [Italian name], A Secret Story. And as I was going through it, I noticed that it included a publication of the Grand Lodge of California of the order Sons of Italy. And it was in Italian which I can read. And it was from 1938. And it had a reference to Mussolini which described him as -- and I translate -- second only to the man of Nazareth.
^M01:26:28
[ Laughter ]
^M01:26:31
Now as a commentary about the idiocy of the scare about Italian American disloyalty after Pearl Harbor, the opera singer, later the star of South Pacific, Ezio Pinza was in the process of applying for American citizenship. And he was within four months of the five-year residency to get it. Well, he was interned, and the rationale was that when he sang at the Metropolitan Opera, he could modulate his voice to send signals to submarines.
^M01:27:19
[ Laughter ]
^M01:27:21
Well, since a lot of important and wealthy people were opera fans, they went to bat for him and he was released. So it helps to have influential friends.
>> Father Ezio Marchetto: I think your voice is loud enough that they heard. Thank you for mentioning that book, A Secret Story. Now it used to be an exhibit. It was published as a book, several different books. I have here the list of the three books published about the internment, and you're free to take copies. The video is quite good as well because it gives all the images. So A Secret Story started as an exhibit that we brought to back some interest in what was done in Congress. As one of the consequences of that exhibit, it now has been published in a book titled La Story Secreta. The book is branded, a similar book. So those are the books that I would suggest for whoever wants to get a little more information about this period of Italian American history.
>> Linda Osborne: I should point out that there was an anti-Mussolini press that dated back before Mussolini. There was a very active, vibrant left-wing communist, socialist, Italian-based press. It wasn't just against Mussolini. It was against our participation in World War I. It was against our participation in World War II. And again, I told you the stereotype of the anarchist was very strong. And so was the presence of these publications. During World War II, both fascist and leftist publications were censored in various ways. For example, they couldn't be sent through the mail. But it wasn't uniformly that. And we have several pages in the book on the vigor of the leftist Italian American press.
>> Constance Morella: That was a fascinating story about Ezio Pinza and how people appreciating his music got him out of the possibility of internment.
>> One more question, please. In the mid-1800's, a lot of Irish families came to the United States. And many of the women tried to get jobs and they couldn't, and they ended up being prostitutes. Did that happen with the Italian immigration that came?
>> Linda Osborne: Interesting question. Were Italian American women who immigrated here forced to become prostitutes? Or was that widespread? Actually, as opposed to the Irish, Italian American men came in much larger numbers than the women did.
^M01:30:20
And if they did come, they were often wives and were parts of families. So I don't know of any widespread Italian prostitution, simply because the numbers were so overwhelmingly in favor of men coming here. Italians also went back and forth more than other immigrant groups, called birds of passage. They came here and went back and forth maybe within the year, but they also came for several years and then went back to Italy. They didn't always bring over their families. So I don't think we need to worry about that as a problem. But it reflects the particular nature of Italian immigration in the period.
>> Father Ezio Marchetto: If you want to get more information about that period when Irish and then the Italians came in, read the Five Points, the book about the Five Points in New York. And it tells you from when it was mainly Irish to slowly Italian to majority Italian. It will explain the work of the children, work of women, work of men. That's a very good book.
>> Constance Morella: Very interesting.
>> Linda, I'm the Italian wannabe that Diana spoke about.
^M01:31:36
[ Laughter ]
^M01:31:38
But my background is German Jewish, and my dad wrote a book on Jewish immigration into Baltimore. And my father is not a scholar, but he did a lot of research. And there was not a point that you made that was not almost identical. And so you know, if you talk about immigration, you can look at it now, same thing that's going on. But immigration is the large issue, not actually the nationality. And it's a longstanding history into the United States of immigrants and the path to not only citizenship, but to assimilation.
>> Linda Osborne: Right. You mentioned that your family has a Jewish background and they experiences some of the same things I talked about. And that's absolutely true. I in fact often in the talk, I hope, said eastern and southern Europeans. For various political reasons back home and economic reasons back home, after 1870, a lot of southern Italians came. A lot of Jewish people came, a lot of eastern European Slavic people came who were Christians. They were all bunched together as undesirable for the same reasons Italian Americas were: they didn't speak English. They were poor when they came here, the dressed differently, they tend to live in their own neighborhoods and so on. But yes, the whole story involves -- and I had isolated for this group to be Italian Americans. But yes, it was. I grew up on Long Island where lots of Italian Americans, lots of Jewish Americans, and our experiences seem almost identical.
>> Constance Morella: It's kind of hierarchical too, isn't it? I mean, whoever's on top doesn't want the next one to rise. And you're always going to have a lower spot. We could look now in our country, those who are most discriminated against. We had a question here, yes?
>> Hi. Angela Fricci. So I'm thinking about the wave of immigration on the later end, the late 1950's, early 1960's. Firstly, on my mother's side, my great-grandparents came from Ellis Island. My father came in the late 1950's. So I guess the question is, thinking about that later wave of immigration, and if you could comment on the impact of World War II on how that wave of immigration was perceived.
>> Linda Osborne: Not an expert on all immigration, but how did World War II have an impact on later immigration? As I mentioned, in 1952, there was another immigration law passed, the McCarron law. And it did not take away national quotas. So it talked about trying to reunite families here. No, no, sorry. It did not take away the quotas. They still remained low. People found ways to come here outside the quota system. We began to take refugees, although actually unfortunately, very few after World War II. But those would mostly have been Jewish refugees. I don't think the same psychological obstacles were there towards people coming. But the rules were there until 1965. And that's when they abandoned the quota system. And I know people who came in that period, too often they were -- for one thing they were often not poverty-stricken from the 19th century with no hope. In Italy they were educated, they were skilled. And they could fly here. It was just a very, very different group of people applying. But in terms of the numbers, the actual numbers, I'm not sure that there was an enormous difference until after '65. I'm not sure though. Good question.
>> Constance Morella: Do we have any other comments or questions? How about a comment about how great the panel was?
^M01:35:56
[ Applause ]
^M01:35:59
They really were.
^M01:36:01
[ Applause ]
^M01:36:04
Diana, do you have any final comments?
>> Diana Femia: My final comment is thank you. Thank you to Grant and Lucia, and thank you to the great panel.
>> Constance Morella: And the audience who's great too. And our timing was perfect. Thank you.
>> Father Ezio Marchetto: So gain, if anybody is interested in a bibliography or a list of sources, it's there. Thank you.
>> Linda Osborne: And I will make one more pitch.
>> Constance Morella: Yep, this is your chance.
>> Linda Osborne: This is my young adult book. This Land is Our Land. It was published in 2016 as the campaign was going on. It has done very well, probably because of that. It is, and I'm told by my editors and other people, considering that I have a point of view, it's a fairly unbiased look at immigration from all parts of the world.
>> Constance Morella: Fantastic.
>> Linda Osborne: So thank you.
>> Constance Morella: How long did you have to work on it? How long was it in the making?
>> Linda Osborne: A little over a year, and you know, this is amazing. It was supposed to come out a season early.