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>> Steven Winick: Welcome to the Homegrown at Home Concert Series for 2022. I'm Steven Winick. For many years, the American Folklife Center at the Library of Congress has presented the Homegrown Concert Series, featuring the best in folk music and dance from around the world. Now normally we hold live concerts in Washington, D.C. in the Library of Congress. But in the year 2020, because of the global pandemic, we shifted to producing an online video concert series, which we call Homegrown at Home. So artists in whatever configuration they can safely play in, record a video concert and submit it to us for the series. So now in 2022, this is our third year of Homegrown at Home concerts. We are still being cautious about bringing audiences together, and so we're doing this by video. We are very happy to have Chao Tian in our series this year, a master of the Chinese hammer dulcimer. And to get some more background and context for our concerts, we interview the performers whenever we can. And so I am here with Chao Tian. And Chao Tian, you've appeared in the series before, in one of our archive challenge concerts. So welcome back, I should say.
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>> Chao Tian: Thank you so much, Steve. I'm so glad to be invited to do this Library of Congress concert series again. And I'm happy to share the music from my hometown, Beijing, China, with the audience. Thank you so much.
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>> Steven Winick: Well, thank you. So one challenge I have in doing these interviews is pronouncing the names of many people and bands from a wide variety of cultures. So I would like it if you would pronounce your own name for us, just to make sure that I'm not making any mistakes.
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>> Chao Tian: Actually, you did a great job. So my name is Chao Tian. So in China, people call me Tian Chao. So we change the position of the last name and first name. So Chao is the pronunciation, just like in Italian greeting word, ciao.
>> Steven Winick: Right [laughs]. Excellent. Well, thank you so much. And in a smilier vein, if you could tell us the name of your instrument in Chinese.
>> Chao Tian: My instrument is called yangqin. It's spelled with y-a-n-g-q-i-n. It's a Chinese version hammer dulcimer.
>> Steven Winick: And you've mentioned that your hometown is Beijing, and I know that you started very young in music. So how did you begin your musical journey? What were those first steps?
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>> Chao Tian: Yes. You know, I started to learn this instrument since I was five years old. My neighbor's daughter who is older than me was starting it. So one day my mom asked, do you want to learn it? And I said -- I think I was too young to answer that question seriously. So I said OK. So that's the very beginning of me and yangqin. Then my parents found a private tutor for me. I received my first award in the Beijing News, traditional instrument music competition after eight months of study. I got a huge inspiration from that competition. So my parents thought I should keep going on this instrument study. So I'm so sorry.
>> Steven Winick: So at the beginning, were you trained in a particular regional style from Beijing, or was it more national Chinese music?
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>> Chao Tian: Actually it was more like national traditional Chinese music. That was my main music [inaudible]. And after I think at age 14, I went to music school, a professional middle school and high school. So I started to study always professional [inaudible] in the school. Then I also gained some [inaudible] training [inaudible] in the college as well.
>> Steven Winick: And tell us a little bit about those studies in the middle school and the conservatory.
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>> Chao Tian: Yes, it's very competitive admission [inaudible] at that music school. Only about 20 students get into that school each year to -- we were a class, and we have different traditional instruments. I remember we have three dulcimer students in that year. So the lessons we were taught are in the Chinese, like, very common lessons, like Chinese study maths, like English, and for the music part, we also had music theory, music history, traditional Chinese music, and private lessons like [inaudible] study with mentors of these instruments. And also have some ear training, piano as a minor study. It's very diverse courses offered to young kids in that school, yes.
>> Steven Winick: Yes. And then you went on to the conservatory level.
>> Chao Tian: Yes.
>> Steven Winick: How did things change there?
>> Chao Tian: I actually got immediate admission to the college in 2003, starting to study in China Conservatory of Music for my bachelor [inaudible] four years. Well, I kind of liked that time in college. It was very free and I can select a lot of courses that I would love to study, for example, German [laughs]. I don't know but I think that language study. So I spent four years with my professor [inaudible] who is a yangqin master, already passed away two years ago. So I think I gained a lot of knowledge from him, in particularly silk and bamboo music, which is a popular [inaudible] in China. And also I learned a lot in college on the topic of [inaudible] music where it's from southern China as well, but [inaudible]. So a lot of field study [inaudible] experiences during that time.
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>> Steven Winick: So tell us a little about those two styles, the silk and bamboo and the Nanyin music that you were telling us doubt.
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>> Chao Tian: Yes. So silk and the bamboo music is originally from [inaudible] like Shanghai or [inaudible] province, that area. It's more like southern area. And from my own perspective, I consider silk and bamboo music more like pop music, but in a traditional way. But Nanyin music is the [inaudible] of the traditional Chinese music. It's very ancient music style. Has a long, long history. They are very different. They are different in the mode, the two mode, and they have different instruments in different [inaudible]. For example, the silk and the bamboo music normally have dulcimers, Chinese dulcimers, yangqin, [inaudible] bamboo flute -- what else -- [inaudible] are the main instruments. But in Nanyin music, they have specific instruments, but very different from that [inaudible] instruments. There is very ancient style of [inaudible] -- five-string [inaudible] and they use Nanyin cymbal. I got a chance to do the field study six years ago in [inaudible] province -- [inaudible] city, actually the city. So I learn a lot from the local artists and it was very different. I hope I can share more in person [inaudible] to give them more [inaudible] vision about this kind of music.
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>> Steven Winick: Yes, I hope that you're able to do that, because it sounds like a fascinating topic. So I know you also got a musicology degree.
>> Chao Tian: Yes.
>> Steven Winick: During your studies there. So what did you study for the purpose of that degree?
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>> Chao Tian: So really it's about the research and the yangqin performance, but my graduate paper and my graduate practice topic is more about the word synesthesia. Like the interaction -- art interaction between visual art and the Chinese yangqin music. Because in China -- so my family has very strong arts background. My great-grandfather, who is very famous Chinese painter, he made the wash paintings [inaudible]. So I kind of inherited a little bit from him [laughs]. So I always fascinated about Chinese wash paintings. And I found there's a very strong relationship, connections, between wash painting and Chinese traditional music.
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So we -- for example, we both use some music, our music philosophies, Chinese philosophies. For example, there's a concept called [inaudible]. It can be translated to leaf [inaudible]. The art is, the excerpt is [inaudible] painting and music. We leave a lot of blank space, empty space, to give the audience more spaces to use their own imagination to just think about this artwork or music. So my research of my graduate study is more like how we can apply this concept, synesthesia, between music and art, especially the Chinese painting art.
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>> Steven Winick: Wow, that must be a fascinating topic, too, to just think about the connections between the visual side of art and music. Amazing. So --
>> Chao Tian: I think it also helped me, because now I improvise a lot. For when I improvise in music, I think that concept helped me a lot to use the -- to reference, to take some reference from the paintings and music playing.
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Because there are a lot of connections.
>> Steven Winick: Yes [laughs]. So I will ask you some more musical questions, but one more about your career. Could you please talk a little about your teaching and outreach work with Beijing Language and Culture University?
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>> Chao Tian: OK. After graduate from the school, I got a position in Beijing Language and Culture University as a lecturer. And I also very lucky to be appointed as a director of the Arts and Education Center. During that time, I was super busy. Arrange all kinds of arts activities of the school on campus -- on campus and out of campus as well. And we have a -- in the Arts and Education Center, we have different kind of students, that group include drama study [inaudible] student [inaudible], and traditional ensemble chamber music, percussion or cymbal, and dance group. So basically, all kinds of arts form. So my responsibility is to hire teachers for those groups. To give them lessons, train the students, and also organize arts events. And also we have different international tour with the students to go abroad with different schools. For example, in Mexico, in Japan, in Thailand. So basically like an arts administrator. That's one of my important goal [inaudible] that time. And also I authored music history lessons on campus as [inaudible] course. I forgot the word. So yes. So that was a crazy time, but I really enjoyed. And I love to, like, to use my passion to do both teaching job, and I enjoy the time -- spend a lot of time with my students.
>> Steven Winick: Wonderful. Well, thanks for explaining a little bit about that, because it's something I think most Americans wouldn't know very much about. So now I'll ask you to describe some of your musical projects. And we'll get to the most current ones, but I also wanted to ask about some of your long-standing work with certain groups. So could you explain a little about the Always Folk ensemble, for example?
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>> Chao Tian: Oh yes. Yes. I actually -- that's my very earlier project that is [inaudible] now, still work now.
>> Steven Winick: Yes?
>> Chao Tian: I started this project [inaudible] in graduate school, back to southern [inaudible] actually. We went for a national competition with [inaudible] ensemble, and we won that competition. So after that, I were thinking maybe we should keep going, on working practicing traditional music. We should become a group and pay more attention on the researching of traditional music. So I gathered my peers, my classmate, and said let's do it. And I named the band was [inaudible]. Actually in Chinese, we have a Chinese name, can be literally translate to Walking Music, something. Walking Music. So that means we want to keep going on. That goal, starting music. One of my American friends helped me to make this English name, Always Folk. And yes. So we did several concert in 2012, that year. And that was very successful. And we got a lot of inspiration from our professors, former professors, and our peers. We thought we should extend this project and do more research both in silk and bamboo music, Nanyin music, music from the northern [inaudible] actually, and some [inaudible] music as well. So we focused on these four main field of traditional Chinese music. After I moved to States, I don't think we should stop, even though everybody was worried about my left. So I just keep organize my band online, virtually actually. And they did really good. We passed a few years, and we just got a huge project signed with the local theater in China to promote traditional music to young kids. Last year, actually.
>> Steven Winick: Alright. Congratulations. And I think it's neat the way the two names of the group interact, because you know, the Chinese name of Walking Music suggests progression and change, but it's Always Folk, you know?
>> Chao Tian: Yes [laughs].
>> Steven Winick: [laughs] so the two names together tell you a lot about the sort of approach of the group. So.
>> Chao Tian: Yes, exactly.
>> Steven Winick: Very interesting, yes. So another project that I was excited to see about on your website was your collaboration with Cathy Fink and Marcy Marxer. How did that come about?
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>> Chao Tian: Yes [laughs]. So Cathy and Marcy, I met these two fantastic ladies in Strathmore Music Center back to 2017. I was the artist in residence of Strathmore that year. And Cathy was my advisor. And Marcy was one of the mentor that year. One day Cathy invited me to their house to jam with them. That was my first time jamming with local musicians, with folk musicians. And that was also my first time to improvise music. That means nothing be prepared. I was super nervous, because what's going on in their house? So we just started to play. I remember my mentor Seth Kibel was there, too. So four of us just jammed. I didn't understand what does the word "jam" mean, actually. But after that, everything was clear [laughs]. You don't need to explain to me. I think that's the magic of music as a language to connect each other. And I was [inaudible] with old-time music. Cathy and Marcy taught me a lot of old-time tune, and Marcy taught me actually my first American hammer dulcimer tune, Grandfather's Waltz, I think. Yes. On her dulcimer. And we started to jam more. And once we went to Library of Congress. Attended a jam session for [inaudible], that time was also my very important moment for my jam experience [laughs], my jam history. But -- and last year Cathy [inaudible] me and said we should set up our project from China to Appalachia, we should like, pay more attention on that. I said OK, so I was invited to attend one show in North Carolina this March, actually. So we played a very successful concert there.
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We played a couple of old-time tunes, and Cathy and Marcy sing some Chinese folk songs.
>> Steven Winick: Great.
>> Chao Tian: And I sung a song as well. I even sung a harmony with them, even though I made a lot of mistake. I [laughs] -- that was my first time singing on the stage. So that program make me realize how close the folk music are between U.S. and China. Some of them sound similar to me. Some of them are also from the tonic scale. And we can just make the two styles of music work together smoothly. I think it's a good model to -- of most people's attention, to use music. Creates more efficacious conversation. More than just [inaudible] argue with each other. Even through I know the cultures from the West and the East are very different.
>> Steven Winick: Yes.
>> Chao Tian: So maybe, I hope this project can be approached more in the future, and can -- yes. There are so many things are waiting for us to develop.
>> Steven Winick: Yes. To bring us together. Yes. So you know, you mentioned the summer jam here at the Library in 2018. So we held that Old Time Music Jam, and Cathy and Marcy were there, and Chao, you were there. And we don't normally record those jams, because we want people to be very comfortable playing, you know, and they don't have to worry about the recording. But we did record that one song, Kumbaya, because we had a podcast that we were going to do on that song. And so in that Folklife Today podcast about Kumbaya, I want to tell the audience, you can hear Chao playing along with Cathy and Marcy and a group of other old-time musicians. So if you go on the Library of Congress website, and you look for the Kumbaya podcast, you can actually hear that jam that Chao was talking about. And I guess, bringing that up, there were two things that kind of come up. One, you mentioned your Strathmore residency. And I think that was an important moment for you also. Can you talk a little bit about the residency at Strathmore, the artist in residence program there?
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>> Chao Tian: Yes, definitely. I was like, super lucky that year. Actually when I moved to the States, I didn't bring my instrument with me. I thought I might -- I was planning actually back to campus, back to school for pursuing a PhD degree in [inaudible]. But you're right, the year I did that application, my mom did go with me, and she brought my instrument here, and said I really shouldn't stop. You should keep going. So I saw the information about the Strathmore AIR program at the very last minute. And I applied. And I got audition opportunity and I got into this program. I was excited about everything happen in this program, especially the language part. Because I barely speak English at that time. My director, Betty Scott, helped me a lot. I -- people from Strathmore instructed me, gave me a lot of encouragement. I took I remember 15 seminars in different kinds of arts topics. They offered different topics like arts management, how you do the PR thing, how [inaudible], how to sing, how to promote yourself, how to contact an agency, and such things. Just -- I feel like I was [inaudible] again. Again, more knowledge, more than I learned from the college. I was very practical, and I think I started my music career -- I really started my music career through this program in this country. So I really appreciate that [inaudible].
>> Steven Winick: And you mentioned one of your mentors was Seth Kibel.
>> Chao Tian: Yes.
>> Steven Winick: Very different kind of music. We've also had him in our series. So explain how you worked with Seth.
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>> Chao Tian: Seth was very humor-driven, smart, and talented artist. I remember our first meeting, like mentor and mentee [inaudible] at Starbucks, actually [laughs] with my broken language. But Seth were very patient to try to understand every word from me, and try to figure out what this Chinese girl want to do. And we collaborated at a senior center. I played my first klezmer music was at -- and Seth tried some Chinese folk song as well. So that was a very [inaudible] experience with my mentor. And he's a good supporter, both on real life and Facebook [laughs].
>> Steven Winick: Yes.
>> Chao Tian: Always give me like for my posts. Just super nice.
>> Steven Winick: Great. And so bringing that up, I can also ask a little about your participation in our archive challenge in 2019.
>> Chao Tian: Yes.
>> Steven Winick: So the archive challenge is a series where musicians learn pieces from the American Folk Life Center archives, and then perform them live. And Seth has done that for us, but Chao also has. So what sources did you draw on from the American Folk Life Center archive to play?
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>> Chao Tian: Oh, at that time -- I still remember that was a super hot day.
>> Steven Winick: Yes.
>> Chao Tian: Temperature was high, and I ran to the library and I did some research actually before, but I found some archive in guqin music. It's very classic ancient Chinese instrument with seven strings. So I was -- I'm a big fan of guqin music. If I got second chance, I might be guqin player. So I found some very good music of guqin in that Library of Congress, played by [inaudible] the master of guqin. So the music is [inaudible] it's very classic [inaudible], and I arranged it into a very different version, and played with my collaborator Tom Teasley at a concert. Tom played some jazz feeling -- add some jazz feeling to this piece, which I really like. And I picked some original melody, but also there's a lot of very Asian based on the original tune. That was one of the music. Another two I remember was a word, nursery rhymes, that I found at the Library of Congress. Those are very famous tune. I listened to since I was kid, baby. It's really interesting to find those audio sung by foreigner, by American.
>> Steven Winick: [laughs] yes.
>> Chao Tian: But in Chinese. And those are very, like, old audio versions. So those are very -- you know, it's so interesting to me to hear the sounds from history.
>> Steven Winick: Yes.
>> Chao Tian: And some of -- I don't know, one of them I still remember, it's a little [inaudible] something. [inaudible] I even don't know there's a melody for that song. So actually I learned the nursery rhyme from my parents, but I learned the melody from American [laughs] [inaudible].
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>> Steven Winick: Yes, so you found some really remarkable things in the archive, and it was great to have you play them in the archive challenge concert. That's also on the Library of Congress website, so people can find that and watch that video. So you've mentioned your collaborator, Tom Teasley, who was there with you at that concert, and worked with you. And you've worked more extensively with Tom since then as well. So talk about your collaborations with Tom, and the Dong Xi project if you would.
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>> Chao Tian: Yes. Tom and I are also met through a Strathmore program. Tom was mentor of year before me actually. And I saw one of the Tom's video played [inaudible] on Facebook, and it was [inaudible]. His technique, his musicality. 
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So I was trying to contact him and other -- somehow the other mentors, we were connected. And we were both [inaudible] our home. It was very close. Just five minutes planning. So I invited Tom to play at my final concert at Strathmore. We started to collaborate together. Initially I gave Tom some of my music, like sheet music, to ask him to accompany or collaborate with me. And Tom suggested Chao, you know, why? Maybe you should try just [inaudible], just try to improvise. I took that suggestion, and I think I fell into that from then until now. And once you get into the world of [inaudible] you never look back [laughs]. And so basically this collaboration is based on improvisation. But gradually, we both noticed under the improvisation parts, there's something more profound that urged us to develop together, which is to create a music dialogue, to make a connection between U.S. and China, to make a bridge. Because if people said music is a universal language. We speak different music language. But we can communicate, mostly. We don't need to fight each other. And -- yes. And also another side of our collaboration is we both think besides improvisation part is at this conversation thing, there are more artistic level of this collaboration that we could explore together. That can be take back to the formal topic of synesthesia, the arts-influenced interaction between our visual -- between the five senses, human senses. So we play together a lot. And normally we just start to play with a simple keyword sometimes. We try to just really play and to see what kind of happens between these two different musicians, speaking different language. And I think it works [laughs].
>> Steven Winick: Yes, there's some wonderful material that you've recorded also with Tom. So yes. So there's a lot out there for people to explore. Also you're famous. You know, I live in Takoma Park, and I was walking down the street the other day, and there's a bus shelter that has ads for some of the upcoming arts performances, and you and Tom, your picture is on the bus shelter in my hometown [laughs]. So that's very nice, to see you're out and performing as well.
>> Chao Tian: Thank you.
>> Steven Winick: So another project that you're working on recently is one called Unheard Sounds. Explain what that project is about, if you would.
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>> Chao Tian: OK. So Unheard Sound, it's an experimental cross [inaudible] collaboration project that I developed [inaudible]. I actually used this project of mine for the next [inaudible] Center, and Joe's Movement Imperial. So on her sound, it's originally named in Chinese, it's very -- it's longer sentence actually from the famous Chinese ancient philosophy group [inaudible]. It says the great music sings only few notes; the great form of picture is there is no picture. So I would like to use this sentence for my project that is longer, so I just changed it to Unheard Sounds. Some sounds that people never heard. Some sounds that people ignored -- yes. Just I started to develop a solo on my Chinese dulcimer, those on the techniques. And the sounds' textures, and also I extended the collaboration that I did with Tom also with another collaborator, Shu-chen Cuff. She is a dancing artist in D.C., Virginia actually. This project is focused on develop the self-expression of immigrant artist. And talking about music language again, if there is a music language universally, there must be some music language accent and dialect. I came to this country with my own music dialect, which people maybe understand, but not every words. So through a communication, a conversation, musical conversation with different collaborators, I hope improvisation can help me to shape a new accent, musical accent. Let people hear every word from -- even though my English language is not perfect. My vocabulary, my grammar, mess up everything. But musically, I think people can easily understand what I'm going to say, what I'm going to express. So this is Unheard Sounds' main purpose.
>> Steven Winick: Well, I'll tell you, your English is also very good. So no one's going to be too confused [laughs] about what you're saying in words either. So yes. It's always impressive to talk to people from all over the world, and how good a lot of people have or get at English. But your -- even since I've known you, your English has gotten a lot better [inaudible].
>> Chao Tian: Thank you.
>> Steven Winick: [laughs] so I guess you've talked a lot about improvisation, and you made this wonderful concert video for us, which has improvisation in it, but also some traditional elements. So explain how you approached that for us, if you could.
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>> Chao Tian: Yes. You know, since I come from Beijing, that was the hometown, right? I was thinking of the title Homegrown concert. It must be something from your hometown, so what that sounds like in Beijing? I was thinking about that. So I did some research, and I found my former [inaudible] did some research. So the music from Beijing, you know, belongs to the [inaudible] music category of China, which traditionally includes folk songs, nursery rhymes, folk ballad. Storytelling in Beijing dialect with drum accompaniment. That's very special traditional way. And most famously, Beijing opera.
>> Steven Winick: Right.
>> Chao Tian: Also since Beijing became a cosmopolitan city in the past decades, I think there must be some new sounds, like fusion sounds. The fusion of [inaudible]. So that's why there were two truly improvisation tunes. One is called [inaudible] at the Forbidden City. Another one is called [inaudible] Fantasy. So we combine -- we use the way that Tom and I used to work together to create this two pieces. But also I pull some traditional elements [inaudible], because for example [inaudible] Fantasy, I used a typical traditional melodic mode called old [inaudible]. And I extended that melody for the piece [inaudible] Fantasy.
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>> Steven Winick: Yes, go on.
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>> Chao Tian: And also the first song was the nursery rhymes I remember, it's called [inaudible] Snails. And that was very interesting. So I knew this song since I was baby. It was most popular lines that parents saying to their kids. Most versions come up with two lyrics. Snail, snail, you're first show out your horns, then your head. The father and the mother will find for you some roasted food. I think the snail represents kids. And the son has the love from parents, right? But interesting is, here they mention the roasted food that the parents bought. I have no idea about what kind of roasted food in this song, actually. Because I'm only familiar with the [inaudible] you know, my mother's son, but I never noticed the meaning of the lyrics.
^M00:40:02
Until last year, I taught this song at a summer camp, local kids. And I was trying to figure out the lyrics. Then I knew that food they are going to feed the snail are liver and mutton. So they're meat. Why? Why you feed snail with meat? So I was super, like, confused about that. I found a group called [inaudible] written by the Chinese secretary of Italian education from Italia [inaudible] in 1896. It was the first collection and edition of Beijing poems, with notes and a translation. But unfortunately there's no explanation of each song. Later, I found an online resource, an article about the long history of Beijing [inaudible]. There is a long -- it's published [inaudible] sells roasted food, which was famous for its taste and rich nutrition, back to the old time. That nursery rhyme was passed on in old Beijing about it, which is the snail song.
>> Steven Winick: Interesting.
>> Chao Tian: So I assume that the parents just want to get the best food for their kids [inaudible] they are saying the liver and mutton [inaudible] in that song.
>> Steven Winick: And it's interesting, because some of the parents who sing the song may not even know that history, right?
>> Chao Tian: Right, right.
>> Steven Winick: Because -- yes. But it persists in tradition. So --
>> Chao Tian: Yes.
>> Steven Winick: Yes. That's a wonderful piece, and so is the rest of the concert. It's just a joy to, you know, to hear not only what you've done with your own improvisations, but how you've taken these traditional pieces and worked on them a little bit to make something new. So thank you so much for the concert. I wonder if there are any of your other musical projects that you want to tell people about?
^M00:42:20
>> Chao Tian: Yes. Last year actually I got another grant support. Now I'm studying with Karen Ashbrook, musician under the support from Maryland Arts Council, the folklore of [inaudible] programs. So I'm studying American hammer dulcimer repertoire, and music with Karen now. I'm just sitting in front of my big dusty string hammer dulcimer. So that is one of my main projects in this past year, and this year as well. Yes, that's fabulous. We went to West Virginia with [inaudible] and they give me a very attractive introduction about how people view dulcimer, what is the history of the hammer dulcimer? And I also found a book, Hammered Dulcimer: a history, online, and I read that book. And it helped me understand the history of the dulcimer -- hammer dulcimer actually. And even much better than I learned from the college, because you know, the fast way to learn folk music is from books. So I think -- yes, it's very special experience for me.
>> Steven Winick: And what are you working on with Karen? I mean, what is the -- are you working on American tunes, or is --
>> Chao Tian: Yes.
>> Steven Winick: So you're learning American traditional music on the hammer dulcimer.
>> Chao Tian: Yes, yes. That's the purpose of this program.
>> Steven Winick: Excellent. And that'll just -- I mean, I'm sure that you'll find ways to improvise with that, and to blend it with some of your Chinese traditions as well.
>> Chao Tian: Yes, yes.
>> Steven Winick: Yes. So another way to bring us all together.
^M00:44:21
Well Chao, I just want to thank you again for doing this interview, and for doing the concert for us. It's always wonderful to see you, and it's great to hear about all the projects you're involved in, and to learn more about them. So thank you so much once again.
>> Chao Tian: Thank you, Steve. Thank you.
^E00:44:37