>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, DC. ^M00:00:18 >> Joan Weeks: Well, good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. On behalf of all my colleagues, and in particular Dr. Mary-Jane Deeb, Chief of the African and Middle East Division, I'd like to extend a very warm welcome to everyone. I'm Joan Weeks, Head of the Near East Section, that is the sponsor of today's program, along with the Asian Division and the Roshan Institute for Persian Studies. We are very pleased to continue the Persian Book Lecture Series with today's program on Persian Manuscripts in India, Collections, Curators, and their Future. Before we start today's program and introduce our speaker, I'd like to just give you a brief overview of our Division and its resources in the hopes that you'll come back and use this Reading Room and the Asian Division for your research. First of all, there's cards, you can get a Reader Registration Card downstairs on the first floor, and then come back up and search in our catalogue at catalogue.loc.gov, and search on terms; for example, if you were interested in future study on Persian Manuscripts, you could do a key word subject search, and you could refine your search to India, and a pull up Persian Manuscripts in India, and you can even limit by language. So, you can retrieve materials in the language of your choice. In this Reading Room, we cover Arabic, Persian, 2000 languages in over 78 countries. This is a custodial division, comprised of three sections that build and serve the collections for researchers, and we have our Africa section that covers all of Sub-Saharan Africa. The Hebraic Section is responsible for Hebraic worldwide, and the New East Section covers all of the Arab countries, including North Africa, Turkey, Turkic Central Asia, Iran, Afghanistan, the Muslims from Western China, Russia, the Balkans, and the people of the caucuses. I'd also like to invite you to try our Four Corners Blog. Here, our curators give you very special glimpses of our collections and very interesting articles. And you can also hear and receive alerts about our programs on Facebook and using our RS Feeds. So, this little flyer gives you a wealth of information, and if you subscribe, you'll be able to get many more alerts about future programs. And I also would like to remind you that this program is being recorded. We invite you to ask questions at the end, but if you do, you're implicitly giving us permission for you to be recorded. So, now, I'd like to call upon Jonathan Loar of the Asian Division to give you a quick overview of the Asian Division, and then he'll introduce further speakers. Thank you. ^M00:03:16 ^M00:03:19 >> Jonathan Loar: Hi everybody. Many thanks to John and Hirad and the rest of the African and Middle Eastern Division, as well as Matthew Miller and the Russian Center, the University of Maryland, for helping to organize today's lecture with Dr. Shekhar. So, my name is Jonathan Loar, and I'm the Asian Division's South Asian Reference Librarian and Recommending Officer for India, Nepal, and Sri Lanka. Before we get started, I just want to give a little background about the Asian Division, which is one of the co-sponsors of today's lecture. So, founded in 1928, the Asian Division has custody of more than 3.2 million physical items in over 100 Asian languages. The Asian Division has seven distinct collections, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Tibetan, Mongolian, South Asian, and South East Asian. This assemblage is one of the world's largest collections of Asian language materials outside of Asia. The gateway for researchers and the general public to use these collections is the Asian Reading Room, which is located in Room 150 of the Library's Thomas Jefferson Building, this building here. Reference librarians are also available in the Reading Room to assist with any and all research questions. The South Asian collection encompasses materials from Bhutan, Bangladesh, India, the Maldives, Nepal, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka. Much of the Library's South Asian acquisition comes through two overseas offices, one in New Delhi, which opened in 1962, and the other in Islamabad, which opened in 1965. Currently, the South Asian collection has more than 300,000 monographed volumes, more than 1,600 journals with 67,000 issues for active and inactive journals, more than 18,000 reels of microfilm, and more than 68,000 titles in microfiche. These items are available in Urdu, Hindi, Bengali, Tamil, Punjabi, Gujarati, Sindhi, Nepali, Subscript, Malayalam, Telugu, Canada, and many other modern languages. The South Asian collection, like the other Asian collections, also has a large and growing list of electronic resources and databases. Overall, this collection provides broad research coverage in most fields and disciplines, particularly in the areas of vernacular languages, literature, religion, philosophy, history, politics, and also South Asian society. It is also especially strong with regard to newspapers, journals, and government publications from South Asia. And without further ado, I'd like to invite Fatemeh Keshavarz of the University of Maryland up to say a few words ahead of today's lecture. Thank you. ^M00:05:46 [ Audience Applause ] ^M00:05:51 >> Fatemeh Keshavarz: Thank you very much. I'm director of Roshan Institute for Persian Studies at the University of Maryland. I'm delighted to let you know that we do have a full program in Persian Studies in which students can major and minor in the language studies, but they also can take a wide range of courses in various areas of culture and literature to enrich their studies. But I wanted to just very briefly for a couple of minutes tell you that, but of course, as I came here to start directing the Institute five years ago, one of my goals was to connect to as many centers of learning and areas in which we could actually come out of the classroom and be with the people who are interested in what we have to offer. And the first place and the most exciting place that I have found has been the Library of Congress. There's absolutely no other place I can compare with this, and I remember when we were searching for a home in the area, my one criteria was how close is it to the Library of Congress. And you know, as a monument really to the significance of learning, the Library has now taken a bigger and more important step of interaction with people because you can store knowledge in the form of books and manuscripts, but there's a lot of difference between that and bringing it to the people. So, this monument has been enlivened with spirits of learning and work and interaction and reaching out to people like Mary-Jane Deeb, like Hirad Dinavari, who will speak to you, like my colleague, director of the Middle Eastern Studies, Joan, who just spoke earlier, and it really is a tremendous pleasure for us to work together. I'm not going to go through the history of what we've done because it will take too long, but we will continue what we are doing in days like this, and it is really a tremendous pleasure to be hosting Professor Chander Shekhar, who gave a beautiful talk yesterday to a full room of young Persian learners, who were delighted to hear about India and the role that that tremendous culture has had in the development of Persian, basically being a hub for Persian culture and literature. So, with that, I thank you all for being here. I look forward to many more occasions such as this. Thank you. ^M00:08:40 [ Audience Applause ] ^M00:08:44 >> Hirad Dinavari: Thank you very much Dr. Keshavarz for a wonderful talk. That was very, very generous and kind of you. Also, I want to thank you for making it possible for Dr. Shekhar to come here from India, and I'm glad that Roshan is working with wonderful scholars of his caliber. Without taking too much time, I'm going to read his very distinguished bio. It's a very long bio, so please don't be offended if I cut it a bit short. Thank you very much. First of all, and I must say to everyone and [inaudible] to all the Persian speakers, thanks for being here. Professor Chander Shekhar is teaching in the Department of Persian since September 1982 and New Delhi University. He is a Ph.D., his Ph.D. thesis on A Critical Analysis of the Musnavis [phonetic] of Anmi Husro, who was judged as the second best thesis by the Mojave Foundation, Switzerland and was awarded in 1990. He is a recipient of the UTC Korea Award, an award from the Iranian President for Cultural Studies, and the Saudi Award in 2010, and the Favro Dean Ali Amat Parlib [phonetic] Award for Persian Studies in 2014. ^M00:10:07 For research support, he has been awarded British Academy Award in 2014 to 2016 to work on law forms from the Shajahan [phonetic] period until the 18th century. He was invited to Sorbonne University, Paris, and I'm not going to read the Institute of Languages, Sorbonne Studies, for a series of lectures in June and July of 2015. He is a member of the International Advisory Board of Perso-Indica Project, Sorbonne University, Paris and Bonn University in Bonn. He is being funded by the EU Research Council. He organized the third Perso-Indian Conference in the University of Delhi in September of 2015. He is a member, a secretary of Academy of Persian Language and Literature of Iran, Tehran, for the Encyclopedia of Persian Language and Literature in the subcontinent, a three-volume work. He has published 22 books so far on Textural Studies of English and Indie Translations of Indo-Persian text and 42 papers published in National and International Journals and Encyclopedia, including Encyclopedia Britannica. Five of these have been published in the National Mission of Manuscripts, Ministry of Culture, GOI in New Delhi. His edited texts have been edited by internationally known scholars like Professor Carl Ernst, Columbia University; Professor Fabrizio, University of Soho in Paris; and William Dalrymple in his works, White Moguls and Last Moguls; and also Professor Robert Elgood of SOAS. He is also a project in charge and chief editor of the multi-volume Lexicon Farhangar a Yon [phonetic]; six-volumes have been published so far. It's a Persian English Hindi and Urdu Lexicon. This project is funded by the Iranian government. Recently, he has been selected as the research guide and consultant on a multi Universities of Europe, South Asia, Central Asia project, initiated by the Exeter University. European Research Council has approved the funding for this. So, I can go on and on and on. There's another -- you get the idea. He is the expert, and I have to tell you, as someone working with Persian and with the wonderful help of University Mellon and other scholars, the unique Persian that comes out of the subcontinent, India and Pakistan, is quite special because it's Persian; yet, it has a heavy terminology of Indican sense great and Hindu terms that Iranians and Afghans don't get; and we really need specialists like him who can help us decipher what we have in our collections from India. And last, I can say easily a third or not more of the Persian rare treasures here are from India, lithographs, manuscripts, early imprints. It was quite a bit of Persian that was produced in India by Indians for Indian audiences, as well as for Iranian and other Persian speaking audiences. Thank you, Dr. Shekhar. >> Chander Shekhar: Thank you. ^M00:13:45 [ Audience Applause ] ^M00:14:00 >> Chander Shekhar: I'm totally grateful for that learned [inaudible] officials of [inaudible] and Middle Eastern Studies, Library of Congress, especially Joan and others, Mr. Hirad, and Professor [inaudible] from Russian Foundation, Mellon University, Dr. Matthew, who have been instrumental in making a contact between Delhi University and Mellon University of Library of Congress, and I hope this initiative will bring more and more folks to these initiatives. In fact, I have come to learn more, not to speak a lot. I'm also fortunate that truly I'm standing here due to my former teacher [inaudible], whose sister is working at this Library, and I guess [inaudible] here. And I'm glad that whatever I have learned I can pass on to the next generation, and that has been the foremost aim of this presentation. As every one of you might be knowing in India, Persian became old language. I can stay that language of masses. Old language, language of elites, language of ad musician [phonetic], right from 12th century. They are mentioned that Arabic has been the language of religion and the partition of reading scriptures and for the monumental [inaudible] scripture [inaudible]. It develops into [inaudible] that the majority of the rules ruled within 12th century until 19th century, none of them was Iranian, but Prussian language dominated. The earliest people from [inaudible] were basically from the Neoclassicism idiom, [inaudible] of their audits, of the [inaudible] and the source of the [inaudible]. They were all from this. We can say that larger subcontinent part, basically. From 15th century until 19th, the last word we say [inaudible] modern empire completely ended in 1857. They were also not Iranians, and they were also from the minor central [inaudible], basically. But Persian remained as a language of all of these. And not only that [inaudible] a huge call for self-literature not only the resources, scientific material, all was scribed in this language. If you read third volume of British level Master of [inaudible], you'll find that almost 4,000 manuscripts in a single commissioned work of Illiten Danson [phonetic], who wrote History of India, a story by [inaudible] procured and brought to British Library, and these are to the and [inaudible] of the same. Apart from that, there are many other collections which have not been yet catalogued like the [inaudible] Collection, which they are now cataloguing with [inaudible] Merusla [phonetic] with the home art presentation they sent in the School of Economics. There are 137,000. If you also look at the catalogue of the Manuscripts of the European libraries, American libraries, majority are highly illustrated and illuminated masters [inaudible]. But still, their number may not go beyond 20 to 35,000 maximum. And recently until now, we have more than 5 [inaudible] Prussian manuscripts, more than 60 [inaudible] documents in Prussian and India, and these are scattered over in three categories; one of the National Library that has libraries of the Museums and the Central Government control, like National Museum, the late [inaudible] Library, [inaudible] National Library [inaudible], Solagen Museum [inaudible], and many others like this. Then, there are also strict libraries, which also have Prussian manuscripts and documents. ^M00:20:03 Many of these have been catalogued and many have not been yet because still purchase of the manuscripts is going on. I remember being a member of the Purchase Committee in Lampur just four years back. We had purchased about 160 manuscripts just in two days, and we gave away about half a million rupees, and this was, that's what's going on, and these are just in the shelves of the libraries, not catalogued yet. So, my submission is that there is a huge collection of manuscripts in government, and there's a part of collections as Russian formation has been successful to persuade [inaudible] act like no to catalogue and destroys their collection, which is almost at 8 to 10,000 manuscripts available. There are many others. In many concords there are manuscripts. There's many of that are one particular [inaudible] that we call [inaudible] them like a leagus [phonetic] in the known and a leagus set basically. And these question that not only in the Muslim collection I'm also had; these are in many Hindu Temples also, you'll find the Persian manuscripts. Documents in Persian, and just scriptures, often those in Persian, and differing manuscripts, which are out in many American and the [inaudible] libraries from the same faith. Also, from the Russians, Jews, Christianity, a lot, a lot, and still we are being out. The question is what we are doing with that and what you people are doing with that. This presentation just as an indicator to the variety of the manuscripts we have in Lampur [inaudible] or Salanga, or some illegal [phonetic] Muslim industry. I also mentioned in many industry [phonetic] libraries, in my own [inaudible] libraries we are about 300 manuscripts of Prussian alone. Like as in Alibab industry, [inaudible] industry, [inaudible] industry, a very good collection. When we received these manuscripts, we had to kind of information. One is about the external physical street. Their script, their ears of the period of the writings, and which is also show that evolution of that Persian and India because with the Persian script or the Arabic script, many other scripts like of Sundi and [inaudible], they were also developed. And how, even within the Prussian script, letters like [inaudible] they are [inaudible] were developed, and these master tell us which are the period in which this letter became present form. For again, example, the letter Golf, for G, which is two strokes, are you, many of you know Prussian know. Prior to 1830s, as I was looking at one of the manuscripts Hirad had shown me, and when I remarked and he went back to see the year, and we found it. It is from 1830s, prior to that, we will not find that. But in the early 18th century, the letter P is done only with a book, and this is one of the reasons that only in any of [inaudible] that it should be pronounced like bifose [phonetic], but in the [inaudible] and it should be pronounced like [inaudible]. So, these masters also tell us about the photographic information. Then, we have illustrated masterpiece of show, which are not the imperial or the regional old manuscript illustrations. These are from the masses, and this tell us about the society also and in culture. So, that idea when permission about the art of book working especially, that two [inaudible] manuscripts; one, which was scribed in India, and the other which was from other world. Like this, on one hand, in the Art of Book Making, there was a continuity of decorating the books with a silver and gold illuminations and a variety of designs were created on these. This is one of our master, scribed in gold [inaudible] namely [inaudible], all in Indian detail of [inaudible] and it's a catalogue. It's interesting. It starts from the city of Ogden and Ismahen [phonetic]. So, this is [inaudible] variety of confluence of culture came up, language came up, and then as Hirad mentioned, variety of the wonderful words not only of Henry, Sastrick, Konert, Filbu, Bungla,[phonetic] Panjabi, and many of this also came up. ^M00:26:02 ^M00:26:10 We know that paper was not easily available after 7th century [inaudible] and counter the Chinese paper started at summercom; then it went to Aleppo, and from 11th and 12th century onward, with the direction of [inaudible], the best paper for [inaudible] was started producing in Kashmir. But apart from that, there were many other places where paper was produced, and the majority of the works which we found in the treasure right from [inaudible] until even site we can see that the majority of the masters was scribed in India itself. On every manuscript from the position of book, we know that there are fly leafs, and fly leafs are really important in many ways. And this was our suggestion [inaudible] wanted that. Then, we destroy the manuscripts usually with these ties only the textual part, not the fly leaf, but the fly leafs are very important in omission. About the pictures of the book, itself the person who brought first time of the possession of the programs it mentions, it provided us the detail, also some political, and I will show you that, so that manuscript is not only the text but the fly leafs. Some of the notes which are mentioned and that after that program and [inaudible] also. This is one of the manuscript from Gulistan of Raza Library Rampur scribed by that a known calligrapher Sofali Machevi [phonetic]. If you can see in the bottom, it is clearly mentioned his name and Vasili. At the bottom of this corner, you can see this is the writing of a renowned collector, a renowned noble of the Rahim Khan-e-Khanan, and he had a moving library, having around 5000 manuscripts with a book atlier always the gilders, paper cutters, scribes, printers, all what used to go with him. He established his first library at Endoval [phonetic], second in Sanowich [phonetic], third at Baronco [phonetic], fourth at Agrarin [phonetic]. So, everywhere he used to stay, he had a lovely [inaudible] stock, and I will show one manuscript, which is noted in Berlin Library, decoration that he purchased that book, written by [inaudible], printing done by [inaudible] at the cost of 3000 rupees in 1598. This is one of the copies again from [inaudible] on Diwan-e-Saib and an port of Jahangir and Shah Jahan period [inaudible]. And it shows that this work is scribed by a renowned calligrapher, Shafia, and who was also officially the [inaudible]. And the seals are also plated by these people. This is a renowned work on the Molin [phonetic] ethics. It's also interesting that in the telegram apart from [inaudible]. From the [inaudible] was always there, and then the famous [inaudible] that one person asked for [inaudible], you learned [inaudible] ethics from home, he said, from those who don't know. ^M00:30:04 So, this is one, and this is the writings that Merdowyn [phonetic] by [inaudible], the same one is from Jahangir and the Ustrut [phonetic] collection of the libraries, the seed was put up and the writing was as [inaudible], and the signature, I told my dear friend, Hirad, on that day that they will make like the palm of the Punjab, but that is not the Punjab of the palm. The word is forget [phonetic], out of humble and humility they will just mention then to forget there is alone means this [inaudible], the person who does not know anything. And it says, again, from Rampur Raza, Diwan-e-Haliz, which is recently reproduced and published and presented to many [inaudible] across central Asia when our Prime Minister had visited. This is the [inaudible] of a manuscript of Kalileh-Wa-Dimnah, scribed by an unknown scribe, so [inaudible] and that [inaudible] and it is from the early 16th century and [inaudible] there are two manuscripts from this calligrapher. One is Florence and the other is this one. A little bit hard, well, I was able to publish the whole manuscript last year with a sort of Indian cultural concept and this is our front page of that one, and it was released by our Honorable Prime Minister last year in Iran, and copies were distributed among all the scholars free of cost at that time. It has about 120 illustrations by Raza [phonetic], and one can also see in these printings, which is gestured in this one, in majority of the illustrated manuscripts, scribed and printed in Iran, there's one discrimination. They're not filled the page square. They mix some scale type so that it is not the full square in that, while the same is not followed in India and either in regional or the imperial ones. This, again, the manuscript from [inaudible] are [inaudible] a story from [inaudible]. It's an 18th century manuscript, and see the colors, and I will request it all to compare it with our manuscript of Shada Ama [phonetic]. He has in his collection, a Library of Congress collection, and the same high colors are used and especially the red one and the green one, and these can be made a comparative study of these illustrations, basically. This is an opening photo of the same. This is again, as I said, there are many private collections. This is a manuscript from Hong Kong in [inaudible]. They have about 270 manuscripts of various regions in the non-religious sects, and I hope [inaudible] will be and the [inaudible] will be successful as I persuaded them to allow the digitization of these manuscripts. This is our last [inaudible] of the same. Then, as I said, people which was one of the mirror objects to create manuscripts was from the Kashmiri, in fact, and it was used by many especially like scribe moment of [inaudible] Kashmiri, or [inaudible], who was also one of the transcribers and inscription writers in [inaudible], basically. And we had a detail in minister sell above the paper; these are coming from where, and you know today, in many cities, you will have a [inaudible] or [inaudible] walla. Our colors was ours. Even though today there may be a [inaudible] and other things but still not the same nomenclature. Like the Ahmedabadi paper was very glossy and stout, had a few varieties like Bahadur Khani. Shabib Khani, well actually, what used to happen when [inaudible] the Emperor used to reach in that particular locality. They will produce the paper particularly and name that paper to him. I remember it isn't [inaudible] when through then Iran [inaudible] second, at least [inaudible] first time, and there's a very good market about paper production. They named after him this one. Then, as I mentioned, in the case of the Rahim Khan-e-Khanan, all the skilled people from gildis to warraq [phontic] or [inaudible], all the scribe, all the printer, all the [inaudible], all were always in the libraries, and even for of a lack of the paper maker, their specialty works which they had to give before the work start. In many cases, you will find that matter is written first and the space is left for the printing, or the vice versa too. In the [inaudible] manuscripts, which were in the royal libraries, there were royal signets, and many were reproduced with a highly American form. This is one of the seal with a board water [phonetic] from early 18th century. It is a work of Miratul Istelah of Anjman [inaudible] which I edited and published recently. It was again published by an Iranian publisher, a copy which I gave yesterday, a gift to Professor Shallows. This seal starts from the top, I don't know whether you can see my finger or not, and that one, middle one starts through the side [inaudible] that is [inaudible]. And in the middle one, the name of the then King [inaudible] and that first one starts with his following the cycle goes on as a generalitical table. But then, other regional areas were moguls were not the Emperors dictated [inaudible] kind of a seal. If the kingdom is from the Semites, they'll write name of the [inaudible] and on the corners name of the qualified [inaudible], the first [inaudible]. Or they will just put the flowers or like [inaudible] in that to illuminate that with especially the red color and especially of the documents. The majority of the seals, like this one, as I mentioned the fly leaves are important in they tell us about the programs and the prices and all this, and the mention about this one. And they'll also mention the place, like this is on the property if you can read, it is [inaudible]. And also, remember, we have some similar words for different cities, like [inaudible] was for Baka. [inaudible] also, and we have presented but it hasn't also the short form of [inaudible]. You'll find in some scripts. This is, in fact, from [inaudible] manuscript, and a very informative one. So, this is from Solagan and this is [inaudible] of early mid-18th century, and it gives a complete detail how to function used to have meetings in the society in the ending times. Yeah, these are the fly leafs, which gives ample information about every manuscript. You can see on the left side, this is a note by Jahanir; middle one is by Shan Jahan, and the middle one is by Abdur Rahim Khan-e-Khanan, who procured this manuscript in 1998 [inaudible] after he got [inaudible] with [inaudible], and many of these manuscripts he procured there. Even he sent the delegation to go out to purchase certain manuscripts which are brought by Portuguese from Iran. So, this kind of that will tell us how Persian manuscripts were bought, sources of trading also. And this is again from the Solagan one. Yeah. This is a very dear manuscript. I hope [inaudible] and surprised. This is Nadir Shah siting on an elephant, a manuscript from 1780s, and in state archives Allahabad. ^M00:40:08 I found it, really, it was surprising for me too. And none of Iranians have this kind of illustration of another [inaudible], and it is another manuscript not published yet, and it is first I mentioned in this illustration also. This is one of the manuscripts which contributes some claims of scholars like Abani [phonetic], writer of many books on the calligraphers. This method of Bostan National Museum, Bali, scribed in 1504 to 1508, and the writing is by Abdur Rahim Khan-e-Khanan, and it tells us the seal is by Niasiruddin of Malwa [inaudible], who ruled between 1500 to 1510 early. The manuscript is in [inaudible] script, and it's surprising that scribe, this [inaudible] is not mentioned in any anthology of the biographies of that scribes, and it's from that period, and the manuscripts in [inaudible] as you can see. And there's a premodel [phonetic] manuscript. It has about 80 illustrations, even one illustration from [inaudible] Temple, which is a [inaudible] travel of [inaudible], but it's a beautiful illustration in this one. Apart from that, there are many other illustrations which show each story of Bostan and but the million patterns of this work is the work was scribed in premodel period in the study. The work [inaudible] with the [inaudible]. Then it went to the Museum [inaudible] and [inaudible] during the seed of [inaudible], gifted to Abdur Rahim Khan-e-Khanan, and he made a note on this manuscript in the bottom. This is the writing of Abdur Rahim Khan-e-Khanan. I published this in a separate article in a volume recently published by Arkhan Foundation on Abdur Rahim Khan-e-Khanan, and this [inaudible] that in they are manuscripts of Iran that Shumsa [phonetic] is used as the seal of the library. In India, it became a fashion that Shumsa, the opening sum of that book, showing the light is used as the seal of the library. This is a seal. If you can't read it, in the middle one, it is an item by [inaudible] now should have been [inaudible] a place of, places of scribe is Malu [phonetic]. In Malwa, which the capital at that time of this [inaudible] in fact. So, this is, this shows that a variety of the manuscripts in them collection tells us the history of the various scripts started [inaudible] there in fact. ^M00:43:16 ^M00:43:22 Yeah, this is a manuscript not from Indian collection but Berlin, but I brought it here just for the information. The whole writing from left to right is by Abdur Rahim Khan-e-Khanan, and he tell us how this, and I've given the translation over here, that how this was brought in [inaudible] from [inaudible] in three instalments, and he had to send about 2000 to 3000 rupees to the people who are having it in the fragments, in fact, and 1 percent where some lives. He thought that Abdur Rahim Khan-e-Khanan will give him more money, so he started moving from and what was on himself. But on the way, the [inaudible] looked at this all things, and those things also, then it became in the hands of [inaudible], and they also sold it to someone else. Then I came to tell him we were sent to procure those, and at the end, Abdur Rahim Khan-e-Khanan tells us that the work described was for [inaudible] and [inaudible] and it took 12 years for the preservation and the conservation by the guilders and the printers and the scribes of the same one. Then, a writing by Shah Jahan and a ownership seal by Auragzeb [phonetic] tells us the manuscript has been in development, but the middle seal again tells us that this was a piece to [inaudible] in the collection of Abdur Rahim Khan-e-Khan to let, but now it is in the Library of Berlin. And it also gives the detail because there was a [inaudible]; again Abdur Rahim Khan-e-Khanan, and he said this is the work which give this mission and due to my, with this, I was saved by becoming a victim, as a conspiracy was hatched against me. So, political notes are also in the fly leafs notes by these nobles of the noble period. Again, the seal of the preservation of conservation, the masters of [inaudible] National Museum and really the [inaudible] and the Noble [inaudible] mentioned that it became in a very dilapidated condition, and it took us about 12 years to put it back to the level of [inaudible] and coloration, and you can see what [inaudible] did assure the collection of the library, and about 13 collection notes are there, which are mainly from the [inaudible] superior in fact. Again, a variety of seals, this is in collection history, how people were interested in knowing the various things. These collection notes tell us how the books were collection between then. I remember there is a book, a manuscript and volume I see, be at our library, and the fly leaf says, this book is mine. It'll be authenticated by the 12 persons giving their [inaudible]. No one shall steal it. If he or even steal it, he will not get place even in [inaudible]. And yeah, but if he ask to borrow it, he must bring signature of two people. So, that when repairs it, it has been. Yeah, it should return to me because this is our only work of Briston in the whole that region. This is the posity [phonetic] of the paper, basically, which increase the [inaudible]. And I got ample collection, which gives a various description. Also, remember that they mention that prices of the manuscripts also and which of the currency they paid. If it is paid in [inaudible] or home, only the coin of [inaudible], even the [inaudible], [inaudible] first coined in [inaudible]. Then went to Perjorgia, even that time of the [inaudible] to [inaudible] but it came into fashion in [inaudible] other [inaudible] period, and it remained until 17th century. They mentioned that this work is purchased at the cost of this one. Here, the numbers were written in [inaudible] and the words also so that no one can make any changes in that. This [inaudible] mascot and as I mentioned some prior collection of Bhandarkar Institute. I could not take a very good picture out of it. On that day, I hadn't my camera. I took it from some other one, but the whole [inaudible] were eliminated, and it's why from a very unknown part, Mobid Kashmiri, who came to [inaudible] from Kashmiri lived 17th century. And in [inaudible] he has given a variety of that political collections, especially on the birth of a child, you got, it's [inaudible] of the triplets in many cases, and he composes that. Yeah, and I was mentioning in my preamble that manuscripts were not only scribed or illuminated or illustrated in the Imperial or regional course. It's for out of that society also. This is one of the manuscripts in my own [inaudible] library about the society. It's a body of work whom our older works. I hope one lady from Pakistan, I was introduced. She might be looking on them exactly. And no one tries even to teach that compilations here [inaudible]. But today, students of the history are working on it because the language is used. It is called unethical, abusive, that kind of the, but the society depiction is also there. But for the society, both are using that kind of the language also sometimes. ^M00:50:03 And here, it [inaudible] the school and the marissa [phonetic] how the students and the teacher are sitting in that one. And second one is more interesting. Mother-in-law took her daughter-in-law, who is not becoming pregnant, to this hakim, exactly what hakim was, and the astrologer also, and she took to him to get some kind of advice from that. So, these manuscripts show us society, the period, and also the occupational detail. The colors which were used in that, again, see [inaudible] that green color is used. That dark red color is used. Manuscripts is [inaudible] like that. Then, 18th century was a period of transition also. When ministers were created for the new [inaudible], that is the pictures of the European forces. Maps were taken and the pictures are; then, European techniques, and this is one of the manuscripts, Chahar Gulshan, which I published in 2011. It has maps from Decan [phonetic] up to [inaudible]. There are three other details, and as for that, some scholars of geography and the cartography, this is a first work on European cartographical styles and effect. Then, again, this is from [inaudible], with a manuscript in National Museum Delhi. Now, there are some who wrote the work, transcribed the work, and printed the work; he's a single person, Mullah [inaudible]. He has beautifully illustrated this manuscript, he has given all with idea of the subjects in this one, from the good life to the one, to the hunting also. Hunting only with the ladies. And here, the French Ambassador is being received in the Fort of the Goolgooda [phonetic], and the whole city map is there, in fact, if you can see. And the dresses of, one dress I was being shown by [inaudible] on that day. Now, I'm showing you this one, and this show, this one. This is the [inaudible] manuscript, which tell us about the market of Mathura and Ojen [phonetic]. People are selling. You can eat it. [Inaudible] fed to cannibals, what [inaudible] fed to kind of sell off that portion or dealing in the paper, and this is the one when, again, tradition that loud cry was given. The rights of the collection or the text is by Shahalam in 1751, and from the time when the history changes, and there's the post decline, a resulting effect. This is the works of another text on the music one, as I said, when I give a subject, and four other Vernaculo words. You can see that script is Persian, but the words are not the Persian language, and this is a thing which has to be done, and we usually call it a Persian, but not the Persian words. Persian was dethroned in 1837 by [inaudible] but Persian and India continued until 1940s. This is one of the sample I'm giving and from a non-Muslim ruling class from [inaudible], which shows that until 1911, even I have a document from 1943 that they are showing that the communications between the various chieftans was in Persian. You can see the gold seals also on this one. This is one of a manuscript which tells us a word is used on many of the manuscripts when in location, Yak bi kaj. It kind of a pub, which was missing from by various scholar that it is a kind of ant as being used by antidote for the others; but now it is a hub one can see and [inaudible] also or the dictionary of the medicine plants, published in three volumes from Tehran. This is a hub, and it is used on many manuscripts with a notation, God may save this book. So, with this, I conclude this brief detail on various collections of Persian manuscripts. Apart from it, I even mentioned that it is not only Persian manuscripts in India. We have in Islamic scripts manuscripts in Turkish. We recently published from [inaudible] Library Rampur collection and the catalogue of the Turkish manuscripts. We have manuscripts in African, a lot, a lot, that I gave them [inaudible] have these [inaudible], which are, have been put up and the divisions have been published in India. Likewise in [inaudible] also. [Inaudible] also. [Inaudible] in Islamic script also. Kashmiri in Islamic script also. These are in abundance in India, but there is a [inaudible] decrees in the script knowing people of this huge campus, and we are facing the problem as you are also facing about this one, and especially about the documents which are in huge number, really huge number, but we need students, who should come forward. We will provide all the detail and the help to them. Unfortunately, the Indian government announced that whoever will do period in Persian from outside the [inaudible] will not recognized by the Ministry, so people are stopped coming from there. They are doing Buddhist studies. They are doing something else. Bring, there are accepting the Persian sources, but they cannot get the deal in Persian studies, unfortunately. But this, this is not a complaint. This is their own policy; we cannot enforce it. Thanks. ^M00:57:06 [ Audience Applause ] ^M00:57:12 >> Hirad Dinavari: Thank you very much. That was a wonderful talk. That was fantastic. Thank you, but before you leave, in the beginning, you gave some statistics, and you used the Indie word "luck," Luck is exactly how many thousands for folks we don't see? >> Chander Shekhar: Hundred thousand. >> Hirad Dinavari: So, if you were to, Hackmein [inaudible], if you were to give some sort of an estimate, how many hundreds of thousands of books would you say? >> Chander Shekhar: Half million, I said. >> Hirad Dinavari: Of Persian manuscripts? >> Chander Shekhar: Yes. >> Hirad Dinavari: And this is not even -- >> Chander Shekhar: And they're four times more than the document forms. If you see, and if you have time, I can show you about 1000 documents right here. >> Hirad Dinavari: I understand. >> Chander Shekhar: Because I've collected in this trail of 40 years. Wherever I have been in various collections, I tried to get a picture for my own knowledge. >> Hirad Dinavari: Right. Now, this is manuscripts. Lithographs and early imprints, how much would you say? That's the other category. >> Chander Shekhar: I have published a book on that. Novel just shows 1896 list and 2000, right. Because printing press had come in India in 16th century, 1582, brought by the Portuguese, and then it was shifted because there was infighting between various missionaries [inaudible] because it was brought by the [inaudible]. Recently, I talked and I studied [inaudible]. That was something [inaudible] get written by [inaudible]. Give a picture of the Imperial a musician to [inaudible], and that's what its claim. The book was presented to Jung [inaudible] himself, but we don't find any comment by Jung [inaudible], even in [inaudible] to Jung [inaudible]. But from that time, this printing press has come, majority of the books were used also for the missionary purpose. In that 18th century, when this [inaudible] Collier established in Calcutta, majority of the books were published for that [inaudible] for that eastern their company officers. And from then, not only the non-illustrated, illustrated ones also, and even I think in Library of Congress and there's some other place else, where you have highly illustrated letter printing ones also. I remember, [inaudible] only it was by [inaudible] has been prepared. It's text and published from Calcutta, but later on another manuscript from Puna was prepared by the Russian Society of them, and they also edit about 10 to 12 folios prior to the text about their faith, about all those [inaudible] of Puna in that manuscript. ^M01:00:14 So, they published it. It really work illustration. So, little one was adopted because it can reproduce the handwritten one in the same form from first it was in the stones. We have still got stones used by [inaudible] in one collection. And little [inaudible] until 1996, all they are doing Arabic newspapers were published from that little technology in India. My father let, they went to Seoul who brought me this [inaudible] Persian studies by the older [inaudible] who worked with [inaudible] long way from the [inaudible] and shifted to [inaudible] and he was always on the, this [inaudible]. And we had in our own family, collection from really early [inaudible]. So, letter was but now letter become again a manuscript. Hard to remember. Masters have not only the handwritten because in the other way that letter is also handwritten. Only thing that we could, [inaudible] more easily than one than with the handwritten one. So, that there's another scope of work [inaudible] how does letter interestingly and book writing, one can write script, but in letter, it is [inaudible], [inaudible] and then it has to be printed. >> Hirad Dinavari: It has to be printed, exactly. Again, this can go on and on [inaudible], as we say, the story continues. So, there is many, you know, angles from which you could look at the Persian publishing in India, but I want to open the floor up for about three questions. We are already over our one hour allotment. [Inaudible], go ahead. ^M01:02:08 [ Inaudible Speaker ] ^M01:02:11 >> Speak up. >> Can you give some a mike to her? >> We don't have one. ^M01:02:15 [ Inaudible Speaker ] ^M01:02:59 >> Hirad Dinavari: Okay. Please speak here so that we can record. Essentially, the question was about seals and the various kinds of seals. >> Chander Shekhar: They were the [inaudible] and they were given these kind of [inaudible] of the titles in the various times. I will send you a copy of my paper on From the Pain of [inaudible] or you can also read yourself [inaudible] who speaks about three persons who were [inaudible] of Abdur Rahim Khan-e-Khanan and also later on became [inaudible]. These were the titles basically. This [inaudible] who was a well-known poet also, and one works of him that really, [inaudible] which is really stand attributed [inaudible] so after someone else, but this works is from him. And there is a manuscript of this collection at the Museum New Delhi also. But basically, these other titles given on the various times [inaudible] is also title. It is not his name. >> You referred at the very end to the fact that studying Persian in India may not be acknowledged in mainland Iran because they basically think of it as a kind of an offshoot there. But outside Iran, there is a lot of interest in the Persian network. All these different constellations or cultures which are very vibrant, and they have Persian in there and so that was not surprising because I'm sure you know and all that. Is there a way that there could be, you know, kind of why would it be illegitimized by one country? There should be ways of coming together to make this a legitimate study of Persians, based on what is available to you and the scholars that are there in India, in Central Asia. So, do you see anything like that happening in India? >> Chander Shekhar: We have [inaudible] Committee union catalogue not only of the Indian collection like Dr. Mosavi [phonetic] did it for the Pakistan's manuscript, or recently like [inaudible] published a collection of all Persian prints [inaudible]. Problem is that scholars, even if they want to do the work, the holders do not allow that. This is the way it's going on amongst master [inaudible] in Delhi and some other parts also, especially the private holders. They do not want to part with their things, even they sometimes resist that they should not touch the manuscripts. It is just a feeling of the possessiveness. They don't know everything has a life. It is a human being of the manuscripts, but it is a feeling, and this is a major hurdle in creating this kind of a union catalogue, basically. Many times we see, like I have shown you this [inaudible] manuscript, and when I saw this first time, [inaudible] a letter to [inaudible] and it has mentioned about this manuscript, but I don't know how he missed this point in this manuscript, and he didn't read the fly leaf note. He just went on the straight [inaudible] because, as I said, fly leaf marks are very much important about these. But there should be more to give and make a comprehensive report on variety of this work [inaudible]. But it's not a simple thing, in fact. You can make a project but implement. Some of the things is a little bit difficult. >> Hirad Dinavari: Last question. [inaudible] >> Chander Shekhar: Yeah, please. >> Right. First of all, thank you so much. I've learned so much from your presentation, and I heard [inaudible]. Again, I'm not [inaudible] expert and so I wanted to ask you if someone like me, a lay person, were looking at a Persian manuscript in India, what would you say would be the major characteristic that would differentiate it from a manuscript [inaudible] in Iran, for example, in Persia? What would be the five or six things that I should be looking at and say, okay, this is a manuscript made in India? >> Chander Shekhar: Very good question. I will need some time, I hope you will give that. There were two types of the scribes, one who had the mother tongue language, means the Iranians, of the Persians because of the Personite world who arrived in India, and the other other one, who acquired this language, especially the comers of the non-Muslims, who acquired this language for various reasons, not only for their job seeking burlesque also [inaudible]. One can make a very good distinction between these two groups. The first group would write the manuscript in the form which is prevalent in their, back in their country and more [inaudible] one. The second group, in spite of the fact that they were the best calligraphers also. They were not any, many of them like Charlie von Bremer [phonetic] who you can [inaudible] industry has worked. He was one of the best calligraphers. They learned calligraphy for two reasons. All of world edits weren't written by the best calligraphers, and one was writing, a single foreman also was like a privilege for him. So, they tried to reach to that stage [inaudible]. ^M01:10:01 These people when scribing the manuscript, especially on some [inaudible] they will create the spellings especially closer to the natural position of the word. While a non-Iranian was a non-Indian scribe will try to scribe the word as he has heard. The reason is it is just the hearing one and the best example of this hearing and writing use dictionary Hopson and Jobson. I hope every one of you know that. No? Hopson and Jobson is a dictionary and it in 1896 compiled on the basis of all the messages he collected from various bishop s[phonetic] from east he shared with India. And in the hearing one, he got, many words he got, which were misspelled or which are mispronounced but it is arguing, well, the two words which he got from Bali that were lost, Hopson and Jobson, and the detail was that in a particular month, we are hitting two words in a possession, and the detail is there is a possession and people are beating their chest and saying, Hopson and Jobson. The word is Yahusson [phonetic] and Yahusson, but they are hearing Hopson and Jobson. In the similar way, describes whatever they were hearing. I gave one example yesterday that an Iranian scholar who wrote an entry and the word alias was presumed to be a Persian word, and he read, wrote, Moman Husein Kharm [phonetic]. Ilias is for Kharm. Ilias is an English word. He thought it was a Persian word. So, similar such mass level of editors, and this is one of the reasons. To find out our own Indie word what is a transposition in Persian manuscripts is difficult for ourselves. What was a true position, then we have to concert the transcript of the all your books, and then we try to find out. This is one of the areas from which you can find out. Then, the illustrations, as I have shown you, they will try to reproduce these illustrations of variety of the people of the lower class especially in the same attire, giving the same kind of older man's, all these things. Then also the buildings. This is their reading of them and [inaudible]. Apart from all this, somewhere you will find that signs of their faith also. Many of the non-Muslims relied in the beginning, [inaudible] but many will just like [inaudible]. They look like this [inaudible]. So, this is, they created their own way. Like in India, a Muslim will call a Muslim [inaudible] but if he's admitting a non-Muslim, he will say of others. So, of others? >> Adapt me. Adopt. >> Chander Shekhar: So, society created certain kind of [inaudible] themselves, and in some cases it's difficult because many Indian non-Muslim writers, like in this Mobits [phonetic] manuscript, it's really difficult to make out whether this Persian is combined in any of an Indian. But you get somewhere form these things. ^M01:14:30 [ Audience Applause ] ^M01:14:34 >> Hirad Dinavari: And thank you to all again. Again, thanks. Thank you everyone for coming, and thank you to the University of Maryland, to Asian Division, John, and everyone, thanks again. >> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress. Visit us a www.loc.gov. ^E01:14:50