>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. ^M00:00:04 ^M00:00:22 >> Nicholas A. Brown: Hi there. Welcome to the Library of Congress's Digital Collections. My name is Nicholas Brown and I work in the Office of Special Events and Public Programs here at the library. It's my great pleasure to welcome Maestro Leonard Slatkin to the Interview Studio here with us today. Maestro Slatkin is in town for a performance with the National Symphony Orchestra and we're going to be talking about his most recent book publication, "Leading Tones; Reflections on Music, Musicians, and the Music Industry." Welcome Maestro. >> Leonard Slatkin: Very nice to be with you Nicholas. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Alright, well it's a treat to have you back in Washington since you've been in Detroit mainly for the last ten years now about. >> Leonard Slatkin: Yes. >> Nicholas A. Brown: And could you tell us a bit about what brought you back to Washington for this occasion? >> Leonard Slatkin: Well, I was the music director here for twelve years and, two set of terms, and after I was getting near the end of that tenure, I actually didn't think I would take on another directorship, but somehow Detroit came in to play, it was a such huge challenge that I couldn't resist it. So, between Detroit and then taking a second orchestra in Lyon, France, it limited my time as a guest conductor. So, somehow dates never quite worked out. I think that last time I was here was even back in 2010, but now, my Lyon directorship has come to a conclusion after six years and Detroit will end this season after ten, and I don't want to be a music director anymore. I've done it for forty years; conducted for fifty. The burdens of endless meetings, board groups, and auditions, and all the other stuff that goes into it, at this point, it's something I think I want to put to the side and focus just on the music-making. I want to cutback to conducting schedule to maybe 28-30 weeks a year, do some more writing of both music and books, and take some time off just to travel to the places in the world I would like to see. I'm 73 now, so one wants to enjoy the fruits of the labor. Anyway, I got asked to come back to Washington specifically to do one piece and that was Bernstein's "Songfest." We are in what is the start of a 2-year celebration of Leonard Bernstein; he would have been a 100 this coming August, I'm not quite sure why they're all starting this early, but they are. And "Songfest" was one of two pieces that he wrote that were premiered by the National Symphony Orchestra. We're also playing the other one which is a short overture called "Slava!" dedicated to my predecessor his music director, Mistislav Rostropovich. So, when we decided and found the date that worked, now I just have to fill out the program and I want to do another work that, at least I associated with Bernstein, but that had perhaps more popular appeal to the audience, and that's Igor Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring." >> Nicholas A. Brown: Excellent. I think we'll come back to "Songfest" a little bit later in the interview, but "The Rite of Spring" pops up in your book in quite a interesting way in the story of an experience with a Mexican orchestra. >> Leonard Slatkin: Yes. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Sorry to jump [brief laughing]. >> Leonard Slatkin: Well, first you have to understand that the book is a kind of mixed bag book where I'll move from one subject to the other with not much rhyme or reason, but in my head there was. I like to think that if I'm in a conversation with someone that's sort of the way I would be talking. I can't go into all of it otherwise we'd be here for six hours, but essentially what happened was, very early in my career, I was asked to guest conduct an orchestra in Mexico City who at the time were paying me an outlandish sum of money to come and conduct. I didn't understand why, but I decided to do it, but the condition was that I do "The Rite of Spring." I had no idea about the quality of the orchestra, but I thought, "Uh, okay I'll go to it." And, I knew on day one there was going to be a problem. The rehearsals weren't in an auditorium. They were actually in an abandoned garage. So, there was this orchestra there and we start and right away there's a problem, because the piece calls for two bass clarinets, but only one of them is there and I looked and I said, "Where is the second bass clarinet?" And I'm told that he was at the dentist or something and he would be back for the afternoon rehearsal; fine. The rehearsal was a real slog. When you get that point, even at a first rehearsal, you have to make decisions about what are you willing to let go and what are you going to work on that's going to make it work? In the afternoon of the second rehearsal, we start again and now there's still just one bass clarinetist, but it's a different person than the one who was there in the morning, and I said, "Excuse me. So, I needed a second bass clarinet." And they said, "Yes, I'm the second bass clarinet." I said, "Yes, but your colleague, the first one, where is he?" He says, "No you just said you needed the second bass clarinet." "No! I didn't mean that. I meant I needed both of you together." And, I didn't see the two of them together until the last rehearsal. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Well. >> Leonard Slatkin: Well, so the whole rehearsal schedule goes like that. It just insane, and finally we get to the concert and I really wasn't sure if we were going to be able to play the piece through without a stop or a major problem. Got through the first part close enough, second part I was going along and I'm realizing this is going to be okay. I'm going to get through this. And then, in the last section, the "Sacrificial Dance", very complicated technically both for conductor and for the orchestra, from offstage we start hearing a voice [singing]. It's getting closer, and closer and on the stage, walks basically a construction worker with high hats or hard hat and overalls, and he's singing away. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: And three violinists put down their instrument, they tackle him, the drag him offstage, but I'm determined. I'm going to finish the piece. I do not want to have to go back and go through this again. So, we finished it and it ends, I'm not going to say indecisively, but just with a like that, and nothing from the audience, absolutely dead and it take the baton and I just drop it onto the podium hoping it will make a noise and people will figure out that it's over. They finally started applauding, but in my dressing room, these journalists all comeback "What did you think of that? Was that disruptive or whatever?" Being from Los Angeles, I can have a very sarcastic sense of humor. Not that you can't have it from any place else, but I had this sort of way to make something seem real when it's not, and I seemingly looked to them and I said, "You know, I had read that Stravinsky somewhere had thought about incorporating operatic elements into this ritual sacrifice to the pagan gods of Russia and now that I've heard a voice associated with this music, I think I'm going to investigate this further" and sure enough, next couple of days, the reviews are all talking about "Rarely heard Stravinsky music now possible" and all this kind of stuff. There were a lot of other stories connected with that whole trip. And when you read the whole thing, it's like no this is not possible. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: But, I did have it corroborated, I was in a kind of a shop, not a hardware store, but something like that, and there were two people, this is about three years ago, they come up and they said "You probably don't remember us." I said, "No." Said, "We played in that orchestra in Mexico City" and we went through the whole thing and sure enough, everything I remembered is exactly what happened. >> Nicholas A. Brown: That's wild. >> Leonard Slatkin: So, there are moments in our life that when they're occurring seem disruptive, but and in retrospect, you go, you know, this is really funny enough. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: To want to tell. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Neat, very cool. So, that's one of the things I enjoyed about your book so much was that you let the reader into you as a person and what you're experiencing throughout your career whether it's in the business side, which has its ups and downs or the music-making side or the family side as well. Would you mind sharing with us a bit about your family background. >> Leonard Slatkin: Sure. >> Nicholas A. Brown: In music and then also how that's impacted you personally and professionally and then also you son? >> Leonard Slatkin: True. Well, four-and-a-half years ago, I published my first book never really thinking that it would have much impact at all. I've always written ever since high school; I used to write short stories and since 2008, when the web became interesting, I would write a monthly column, I would write articles for newspapers, for magazines, and finally people said "You know you have such stories to tell and your family history is so interesting, why don't you put them in a book?" So, the first book which was called "Conducting Business" was kind of an autobiography memoir, but primarily meant to inform the lay public. The music lovers not the musicians about what a conductor does; how do we study, how do we decide the end of the profession, what it's like to be a music director working in the Opera House, recording, being on tour, health, all those things. ^M00:10:08 And it's sold very well much to my surprise. And people started saying, "Well, is there going to be a sequel?" And I said, "I don't really know." And then I started looking at all the notes I'd made and realizing how much I left out of the first one, but I wanted to take the second book in a different direction. So, rather than considering it as a sequel, it's more like a growth and continuation of what was in the first book. Essentially, my family were Russian in origin from my grandparents. My mother's family settled in the states in 1903 prior to the first revolution and my father's family settled in St. Louis in 1912. On my mother's side, everybody was musicians, every one of them all mostly cellists. One of them, one of my mother's, my grandfather's brothers was named Modest Altschuler and when he arrived in New York, he founded something called the Russian Symphony of New York which is all Russian immigrants, and they would play for fourteen years a series of concerts at Carnegie Hall giving American premiers of a great deal of Russian rapporteur, but also some unusual things along the way. My mother, along with her father, were outstanding cellists. Eventually, the Aller side, actually the Altschuler, that was the real name; there was this rift in the family we have like two opposite sides, they wound up moving to California. My father' side, this group having come from the Ukraine, settled in St. Louis. My grandfather on that side was a barber. There were no musicians other than my dad who could be heard practicing apparently by everybody. When I arrived in St. Louis as the assistant, you would swear everybody lived on this little street, Washington Boulevard, because they all talked about being able to hear my father play. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Wow. >> Leonard Slatkin: I didn't know his sound was that big. Eventually, he also would relocate with his family to Los Angeles and there was a competition held before young soloists; the award would be a performance in the Hollywood Bowl with pianist conductor who was Jose Iturbi and my dad won. My mother was furious. They had not met. She felt the whole competition was rigged. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Uh-oh. >> Leonard Slatkin: And she went back and she started to give my father hell about it, she said, "You didn't deserve to win, that I should have been the winner." Well, somehow they thought they should continue the argument over coffee and a bite to eat and two years later they got married. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Funny. >> Leonard Slatkin: So, with that in mind, they moved in three different directions of the music industry in L.A. First, my dad was concert master of the orchestra at 20th Century Fox. There were eleven studio orchestras each with their own actors, writers, directors, producers, and musicians and composers. So, he was at Fox, my mom was the first cellist over at Warner's and she was the first women to hold a titled position in the studios, and this is the late 30s. In the 40s, they formed one-half of what would become a very famous group mostly known on recordings because they didn't tour a lot; they were called the Hollywood String Quartet. They couldn't tour a lot because the studio work kept them very, very busy. And the third part of the music resistance [phonetic] was the part of the popular music industry and the recording field, particularly for Capitol Records where people like Nat King Cole, June Christy, Stan Kenton all of the people who were recording for the same one, but in particular, it was Frank Sinatra who became very close to the family. My brother and I, when we were young, referred to him as Uncle Frank. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Wow. >> Leonard Slatkin: When we were little, he would take us by the hands, lead us upstairs, put us in our beds and sing us to sleep. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Oh, my gosh. >> Leonard Slatkin: Yeah. We spent a lot of time with him in his homes in Palm Springs and Las Vegas and he couldn't have been nicer to the family. Obviously, if you were a friend of Sinatra's you couldn't have ask for a better friend; if you were an enemy, you couldn't ask for a worst enemy. So, I grew up in this family where there were not boundaries in music. We didn't think about classical music as up here and rock and roll was down here. If it was good, it was good no matter what the genre, and I've stayed that way to this day. I do a lot of things that many conductors don't do, simply because they didn't have that as children. Having this kind of background was in some ways a big benefit, but a slight curse because if you were associated with doing lighter music, some people say "Well, okay he's not that serious." And I knew that was a risk, but I couldn't be without it. Jazz became a hugely important part of my life, first as a piano player and as a conductor and a listener, and that hasn't changed either. So, I've enjoyed this existence of just experiencing all kinds of music and it is due to the influence of the family and all the people we met, because all of those folks that I mentioned and virtually every luminary, whether it was Stravinsky, or Hindament, or William Walton, or Sinatra, or Korngold, Tiomkin. Max Steiner all the big film composers right through to John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith and so forth and so on, all of them were at our house. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Wow. >> Leonard Slatkin: And they all played on the piano that I still have and to us they were just people. They were normal. I didn't hold anybody in the highest esteem in the world, I held baseball players up there, but not musicians. They were just really good people to get to know. The other thing that did have an impact on me a little bit later had to do with 1955 and 56 when the McCarthy hearings were taking place. The film studios were among the prime targets. Generally, people who are in the arts, the performers, the painters, writers tend to be a little more liberal in their thinking. The people who are donors, however, surprisingly tend to be a little more conservative. So you have to find that balance, but McCarthy went after musicians and almost anybody he could involved with Hollywood including Aaron Copland who, one was accused of being a communist, a homosexual, Jewish, which he denied in Congress but then later it turned out he was all three and it caused complete chaos in the film industry. All the studios then abandoned their separate setups. They're making one pool actors and musicians and directors for all the studios. Actually, he wound up putting people out of work rather than the theory that it would open up everything. So, all of a sudden I became interested, not quite yet, but later on in the history of the unions, vis-à-vis how and orchestra is dealt with, because they're part of the negotiating process. But these days with the, in many cases, very, very healthy salaries that orchestras are making, I think the union's job is not be involved with orchestras except for pensions, health benefits, things like that. Unions are good I think for the studio musician, bursting the club date, things like that take care of them. So, a lot of things from the past have come back to me recently and so I wanted to talk about some of them in the book. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah, great. And now your son is in music? >> Leonard Slatkin: He is. Now this is unusual because I didn't have the best luck when it came to being married. I had two early marriages, neither of them lasted more than two years. Just, but those separations were all very amicable, it just didn't work., but in the third one after I think nine years, Daniel came along and now there was a different reason to focus, but as many musicians will tell you, it is very difficult with this life on the road so much and focusing on career and the hours you need to study and work, it's not something you leave at the office. You bring it home when you're home. So, I was away a lot. I fell to temptation a couple of times. My wife and I became really antagonistic, our son saw it and eventually we separated and I worried about my son, because I didn't know what was going to happen. He had been interested in music, but only on the peripheral. He played piano, played viola, but we were all convinced he wasn't going to go into the performance end at all. ^M00:20:31 When he went to private school during his high school years, he started playing guitar; did a little bit of drumming I think, and then out of nowhere he decided he wanted to be in what's called the "music industry" meaning go to the University of Southern California and study to be possibly a producer, an engineer, maybe have a management of a bunch of rock groups stuff like that. Three-and-a-half years into that program, out of nowhere, came "You know, I think I want to compose." And I went, "What?" He says, "Yeah, I don't want to deal with the nonsense that goes with the management side of the profession." And very quickly, I mean really quickly, he acquired the skills as a composer and so now at age twenty-three, now going to the UCLA Extension Division, he's writing music for films and television, he's wrapping up his first documentary, he has a couple of short films out there, and I'm not saying this as a proud father, this is very distant, he's really good at what he does and I think he will be able to make a good, strong name for himself after a while. He's very serious. He has a fiancé. They probably won't get married for a couple of years, but they're very supportive of each other and he and I have become very close now. In fact, as we are talking, he's here on this. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yes. >> Leonard Slatkin: Trip to Washington. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yes, yes. >> Leonard Slatkin: And he came to rehearsal yesterday and all the members of the orchestra who knew him, you know, when he was yea high, they just were so happy to see him again and it was; especially his first piano teacher was playing keyboard in the orchestra. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Oh, that's so great. >> Leonard Slatkin: They had a great reunion. So, it's a different kind of pride. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: You know? Of course, I realize I better not mess up with the concerts, because if my son gives me a bad time, it's all over. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. Excellent. So, your son, you mentioned that he studied piano. >> Leonard Slatkin: Yeah. >> Nicholas A. Brown: And was that his primary instrument always or did he play [multiple speakers]? >> Leonard Slatkin: He played viola. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Uh-huh, interesting. >> Leonard Slatkin: And he actually was the only violist in his middle school or actually that was still here and a rather cute story evolved from that. He was playing viola in the string ensemble, but he was a pretty good pianist. But there was another kid in his school who was top class pianist, very young, just one of those protégés who could do anything. And Daniel in his last year in school here, really wanted to play something on the Spring Concert on the piano, but he was worried that the other kid was going to get it, because superior talent. And when he told me this, I said "So, you want me to basically go to your music teacher and say would you please let Daniel play?" And I said, "That may not be the nicest thing, but let me try something else." So, one night I sat down and I started writing an arrangement for piano and strings. I guess it was a Christmas Concert, that's what it was of a couple Christmas songs that could be played by that age group. And I went the music teacher and I said, "I know you probably have Ben" the other child playing, "but maybe you might be interested in this because it's age appropriate for your young string players and it would feature Daniel on piano and would conduct." >> Nicholas A. Brown: Dun-dun-dun. >> Leonard Slatkin: And, I guess it's a form of bribery I suppose, but that's what we did and that started a small part of my career that I never thought would happen. I went on to write twelve pieces that began the collection, and then I wrote another twelve and now a third volume has come up with single line instruments and it's all because of that little genius Ben. He probably has no idea what he started and these actually sell very well among more than schools, churches; churches really enjoy doing them. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Interesting. >> Leonard Slatkin: It was just another fun. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Cool. >> Leonard Slatkin: To do. I like adventures outside of the conducting. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Has Ben stayed in the music industry? >> Leonard Slatkin: I don't think so. I think he, I know he graduated from whatever incredible college he went to. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: You know, but early he was just one of those kids. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Interesting. >> Leonard Slatkin: Right. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Neat. >> Leonard Slatkin: Probably be a serial killer now. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Oh, gosh. >> Leonard Slatkin: Probably. No. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Hard part. >> Leonard Slatkin: Yeah, hard part, yes. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Where did you live in D.C. or in the area when you were? >> Leonard Slatkin: We lived almost entirely in Potomac. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Okay. >> Leonard Slatkin: In Maryland. And I used to love driving down to the center, because I could either take the canal road down and cut over, or I could go over to the junior parkway and I could get from my garage at home to my parking spot at the Kennedy Center; one, no billboards; two, not one stoplight. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Wow. >> Leonard Slatkin: That will never happen again. >> Nicholas A. Brown: No. Not at all and now they're doing constructive over there and all that kind of stuff. >> Leonard Slatkin: Yeah, but I loved that drive in the morning. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. What have you seen change in D.C. since you've started coming here and since you living here and. >> Leonard Slatkin: Oh, absolutely nothing. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Oh, yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: Gee, it's all the same. You know, I was hanging out the Clintons and. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: A little bit with the Bush's and you know here this trip I've been waiting for my invitation to the White House, but I suspect that's not going to be forthcoming. But, those, in those administrations, often the Presidents and First Ladies would come to the concerts. Members of the Diplomatic Corp. lots of people from news divisions became very good friends. I think that the Kennedy Center itself, which has so much to offer, still remains a little bit disconnected from Washington life, in the sense, that when you're a tourist say you come, yes you want to go the Capitol, you want to go to the White House, you want to go to the Smithsonian, come here to the Library of Congress, whatever, and it's not the first thought to go to the Kennedy Center. I still think no one's quite solved yet how do you make that structure and what's inside, an integral part of the city, maybe because of where it is. I know they're extending it out now trying to build a pedestrian mall. They tried that quite a while ago even while I was here, and the costs were too prohibitive. So, maybe the physical way it connects will help a bit, and I'm hoping that Deborah Rutter will really use her incredible skills to help make that happen, but it's made it a little more complicated. People don't really know that your government, your taxes do not go to the institutions within the Kennedy Center. They go to the building. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: Maintaining it, because it's a national monument and making sure that the upkeep is there, but the institution still rely primarily on philanthropy and ticket sales. So, when you talk about ticket sales, you're talking about potentially high prices and that shuts out a lot of people and the ability to come, even though on bus tour you're going to see three million people looking at the Kennedy bus and the Hall of Flags and all that, but they don't really go into what it's supposed to be about and that's making the arts a living and breathing thing. So, I member one of the things I did right away, I went on a tour like the first day I got here. I got a tour but they didn't know who I was and it shocked me that we really never went into a hall, none of the performance spaces. So, I immediately opened up the rehearsals, I said "If we're rehearsing, you bring that tour group, they stand at the back behind the railing, and stay for five minutes." They said, "Well, don't you think that will be disruptive?" I said, "No. They'll be so in awe and surprised and pleased to be there they will be just fine." And I suspect they still do it. I don't know. My back is always, I mean, I never see what's going on back there. But I always thought that was a good start for opening it up. But, they're going to have to reconsider pricing structure. I know they're doing a lot of good work now in Outreach at least in the orchestra, having Mason Bates as the Kennedy Center composer residence is great, because Mason is just terrific at understanding so many levels of the artistic experience, but it really is a question of making it come together. If you look at the other major venue in the country, Lincoln Center, and it's sitting there right in the middle of everything. You can't miss Lincoln Center. And when you look at the Kennedy Center it just, it's not quite connected to anything physically. So, they're going to have to find other ways to make that work. So, that remains what it was. I do see a lot of new independent stores opening up as I've been driving around a little bit and that's very pleasing, certainly the restaurant scene is even better than when I was here. There's just so many wonderful places to eat. Obviously, one notices the heightened security sadly, and as we're talking it's not really tourist season, so the city is not too crowded, it doesn't feel like it anyway. ^M00:30:37 So, at the moment, it feels like the people who are actually residents of the Capitol are the heart of the city. They always have been, but when all the tourists come, that changes the dynamic of the city, it changes who it is and what it is. The administrations are going to come and go, that's always going to be. There will be a whole new core of people every two, four, six years and you took that in stride. It made it difficult in some places to establish some long-term friendships with people I wish I had gotten to know better, just because they're here and then they're gone and it's hard to find them. But, essentially there's still an excitement to the city knowing that we're in the place that when everybody turns on the national news and sees what's going on, here in Washington, you turn on the local news and the local news here is the national news everywhere else. >> Nicholas A. Brown: That's very interesting. One of the things in our collection is we have a lot of Bernstein's papers of course, and Aaron Copland's and many other major, major figures from the 20th Century American History and culture. And in Bernstein's correspondence, particularly with the Kennedy family, you can see when he first interacts with Jackie Kennedy when J.F.K, was in the senate and they had some correspondence then and then as it goes forward and their relationship into the inauguration, and we have this Frank Sinatra telegram that Frank sent to Bernstein talking about he called him a genius and saying how he'll see him at the dinner and there was a whole story with a snow storm and then into the White House time how the, how Bernstein was pulled in to certain things to advise on a personal level about the arts and arts policy and then was brought in for certain state functions where the diplomats from Japan, for example, and then the whole period from after J.F.K. was assassinated and the letters that Jackie wrote to him on the night of R.F.K's funeral which is just mind-blowing. >> Leonard Slatkin: I could imagine. >> Nicholas A. Brown: At four in the morning, it's ten page thing just pouring her heart out about Muller it's amazing. And then how they were so connected later on and with the Kennedy Center, of course. >> Leonard Slatkin: Yes. >> Nicholas A. Brown: With Mass and with "Songfest." What is the appropriate balance in your mind or a civic figure, or culture figure like yourself and the civic society whether it's the politicians, the you know, the Chamber of Commerce, etcetera? >> Leonard Slatkin: Bernstein was unique. I mean, never before had there been a musician who infused himself into virtually all aspects of society the way Bernstein did. But then again, Bernstein was the very first American conductor to have achieved an international reputation. He was intellectually curious all the time and loved, absolutely adored being part of the interaction with every figure, but I'll get back; I have one quick story about the Kennedy Inauguration. So, Sinatra is invited to sing. Sinatra said, he's coming but there's a condition, my mother and dad had to be the respective first cellist and concert master of the orchestra. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Wow. >> Leonard Slatkin: So, I have photos of them with Bernstein. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Oh, my gosh. >> Leonard Slatkin: At the inauguration and do you know what the gift was that everybody got? >> Nicholas A. Brown: They got one of those books? >> Leonard Slatkin: No. They got a cigarette holder. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Oh, really? >> Leonard Slatkin: Yes. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Oh, my gosh. >> Leonard Slatkin: You know, a thing like that a silver the thing on it. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Oh, that's pretty cool. >> Leonard Slatkin: That, you know, that was very generational. Anyway, so we can say today that a few of our musical figures have tried to interject themselves into the political scene anyway, certainly Daniel Barenboim's done it. Dudamel has kind of waffled, but sort of getting drawn in a little, and my predecessor, Rostropovich clearly wanted the same kind of thing. But Bernstein was the one who could pull it off. And you only have to go back and read that fantastic lengthy essay in the New Yorker written by Tom Wolfe where we got the term "radical sheep" which describes the dinner party at Bernstein's apartment when he invited the Black Panthers over. That was Bernstein. Trying to understand and somehow put diverse groups of people together. He truly believed that he could do this. I think it was an interesting time. I don't think it was necessarily meaningful, but for me personally, I try to let the music more or less speak for itself. What we have to do as a performing arts institution, I'm going to cough and I might need the water. One second. I can pick this up. >> Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: Thank you. ^M00:36:04 [ Background Sounds ] ^M00:36:10 If it's down here you won't see it? >> No, yeah that's fine. >> Leonard Slatkin: Okay. What I think we need to do as performing institutions or artistic institutions is to make what we do available to as many people as possible, mostly through an education system, because since I was a young person and now, arts education especially in the public schools has just deteriorated. When I arrived in Detroit, the supervisor of schools bragged that 30% of Detroit schools had music education and I just looked at him and I said, "And 70% don't." So, I've been working the last couple of years to find a way to fold arts education, not just music, but painting, sculpture, architecture everything, into the history curriculum. No piece of great art exists in this vacuum. We always have something to say about the society in which that artist lived whether they're looking ahead or looking back or providing commentary. So, maybe that helps if history teachers get a little bit of education as well into interjecting the arts as they go across. Then we'll see. Maybe there will be an outcry from some public people to have that, but we're two generations now where it's been declining and declining and declining. But with that being said, we're seeing an influx in our country of something quite different than what we saw when I was young and what my parent's generation saw. Our artistic heritage in almost every way came from Europe or Russia or one of the Slavic countries. Today, the influx is coming from Asia whether it's Japan, Korea, China. These are the people who understand that becoming part of the global marketplace means that you have to become part of the western cultural scene as well, and they are producing outstanding talents in every field. So, our job, I think, as artists are to encourage this diversity, embrace the new Americans. Obviously, I'm as the grandson of immigrants, not so keen on how we keep people out, because maybe you're going to prevent something from happening, but you're also maybe going to lose out on opportunities. So, perhaps the system under which we let people in needs to be looked at very carefully, but there's a lot in this world none of us are ever going to be able to change. All we can do is identify those who we see have promise, who have talent, the dreamers, all these people who will make American life better as we go along. The focus now is on the people who will make it worse. I tend to want to think the other way. >> Nicholas A. Brown: You've been in Detroit at such a pivotal time in the city's existence and it sort of moving towards a new potential, where was the city when you found it as a music director and where is it now as you're preparing to complete your tenure? >> Leonard Slatkin: I hadn't planned on going anywhere after I finished in Washington. I thought that was it and then I was asked to guest conduct the Detroit incredible Hall, just really one of the great halls of the world, not so big, about 1800 people. The orchestra was good. I really didn't even know they were looking for a music director, but somehow we hit it off. Board members came to me, we hastefully arranged a couple more concerts to see if it would work. But along the way, people were saying, "Well, you know there's going to be a lot of problems in Detroit." We already knew that the economic downturn was happening in Detroit two years before it happened everywhere else, so 2006 is when the automobile industry was really on the verge of a kind of collapse, 2008 for the rest of the country. What that meant, that perhaps the upswing could take place a littler earlier if there was going to be one. And then, into the third year of my tenure, the orchestra was on strike. They were on strike for six months. And everybody had told me that was what was going to happen before I took the job. Everybody knew this. And that's when I took it on as a challenge. I said, "I've got to be here. I've got to be part of what will happen when the strike is over." So, during the work stoppage, I was meeting with musicians, board members, management, talking to the other people, "What do we do the day the strike ends?" And we started putting in initiatives. We webcast for free all over the world, every subscription concert now are educational concerts, as well as, others. We offer incredible pricing structures for young people; for 25 dollars students can buy what we call a soundcard. We're not one of those cities where people walk up at the last minute and buy a ticket. We're; the suburbs are too far away. So, we know two weeks in advance roughly what our ticket sales will be like. And we're not talking about just orchestra concerts, anything that's done in Orchestra Hall, you pay the 25 dollars, you're in, but it's 25 dollars for the whole year. It means after one, certainly after two events everything after that is free. You get the pricing structure right, you're going to attract the young people. The third thing we did was to go out and play in those suburban communities increasing subscribership by about 3500. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Wow. >> Leonard Slatkin: And adding almost six more weeks of classical concerts for the orchestra, more and more orchestras now are relying on pops concerts and playing musical films and those are all fine, again, if it's good it's good. But I know the musicians appreciate getting their teeth more into the rapporteur or they're older or contemporary. So, those things that we did helped to spur other organizations, not just arts ones, but businesses to say "Hey, the orchestra has just really gotten ahead of the curve here", and all of a sudden, new people were moving into Detroit, the largest community of artists for example in Detroit is coming from where? Brooklyn. It's too expensive in Brooklyn. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yep. >> Leonard Slatkin: So, they come, they buy these properties that are inexpensive, redo them, and are creating sensational, really interesting new works of art. I don't recognize much of the city that I came to nine years ago. >> Nicholas A. Brown: No. >> Leonard Slatkin: Which at the time, looked like Berlin in 1945. Yes, there are still large pockets that remain burned down or empty and whatever, but gradually you see the transformation that's taking place. There's still a long way to go for both the orchestra and for Detroit itself, but one good number is that when I started out of the orchestra at that time I think was 92 players. Only one lived in what we would call the "downtown" area. Everybody else lived in the suburbs. Over the last year, I hired seven new players and out of the seven, six of them live downtown now. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Wow. >> Leonard Slatkin: And that's a big change. The shops were moving. The restaurant scene has become terrific. The art museum, another thing that was potentially going to disappear. The city itself voted, because it's a city museum, if you pay taxes, the museum stays in business and the residents in Detroit City voted that they would not allow the museum to fall victim. Amazing. So, it's been a great story. I had to change my set of goals. I had a slightly different artistic agenda when I started, but now my job was just to help get the orchestra, not just back on its footing, but really in a more prominent position than it had been and through all the initiatives with all the people that helped, I think we've come to a very good place and when that happens then you say, "It's time to stop." Let somebody else take over and build from that. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Are there any specific repertoire programmatic decisions that you've made in Detroit to maybe tap into the young audience or to grow that subscriber base? >> Leonard Slatkin: Well, you don't really want to be in Detroit in February. If somebody said, "Where are you going in February?" "I'm taking a vacation to Detroit." "No, you're not going to do that." I'm from L.A. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: I mean, I don't know what all that stuff is that's falling from the sky and it's causing my car to stall and slip out, but a lot of our patrons, the ones who are the big givers and all that, they leave for the slopes or for the sun. So, one of the first things I did was start a series of festivals in the February period, they're three weeks long. The first year it was all the Beethoven symphonies and three weeks. Then the next one is all the Tchaikovsky symphonies and all the concertos in three weeks. Then it was all the orchestra works of Brahms' and then after that it was just a whole pile of Mozart and this year it's a French Festival. These go on for three weeks, two different programs each week, each played twice. Very low-cost, but also tied into the subscription scheme. So, subscribers who are there can go, but if you want to come to one of these festivals, you can get a really great discount on being able to come in. ^M00:46:13 And I guess the best statistic I could cite is that when I started nine years ago, ticket sales were at about 61-62% at house on an average, and now they're going closer to 93%. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Wow. >> Leonard Slatkin: And it's due to all these factors. It was complicated but also simple. A lot of it was just saying, "What does this community need to make it interesting? What would it take to get people to really want to come to the Detroit Symphony?" For young people, it's not the repertoire and it's really not the artist unless it's a big pop star or something like that, it's the pricing structure. Can I actually get into the symphony for less money than it's going to cost them to go the movies and spend all that money at the concessions? >> Nicholas A. Brown: One of the interesting discussions you get into in the book, is applauding between movements and you seem to have a an attitude about it that I like and that I'm in-line with, but every time I have that kind of conversation with certain colleagues or certain musician friends, you know, there's a whole negative chastising thing that goes on and. >> Leonard Slatkin: Yes. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Would you mine sort of summarizing that? >> Leonard Slatkin: It's pretty simple. Really it wasn't until the 20th Century when this concept of not applauding between movements started. We don't quite know how or why it did. It might have even been more an intellectual movement rather than an emotional one. Beethoven's 7th Symphony at the premier slowly was played, the audience applauds widely, and they repeat the slow movement before going on with the rest of the symphony. And this was the case all the time. And a little bit like if you went to a pop singer's concert and they do a song, and they're going to segue into another one, but people will applaud and you have to either wait to go to the next song or whatever it is. With symphonic music, it's pretty clear when a composer might actually have encouraged the applause especially in the concerto; first one usually ends in a flourish and whether it's Tchaikovsky or Paganini whatever it happens to be. I find that the applause is a release of tension for the audience. They've been sitting like this for 20 minutes, and now yeah, [clapping] okay. It's probably inappropriate say at a string quartet which is an intimate surrounding or even at a recital maybe, but for an orchestra concert there's just some pieces that beg a response. Where I think the naysayers argument falls flat, has to do with the same practice being acceptable in an opera. So, in Tosca the soprano finished Vissi d'arte and the audience cheers and screams, goes on for a minute-minute-and-a-half, but not only is the musical flow interrupted, the story stops dead. So, why is that okay? But at a symphony where usually the composer, unless they have said they want you to go from this movement to the next what we call a attacca, right away. Why can't they applaud? Why not? Certainly, I can name no musician that I know who doesn't want applause. We all want it. It's a question of when. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: I think it has to be done though out of the emotion that's generated. So, it doesn't bother me at all. I don't encourage it. I know it's; I don't finish something, give it cutoff and go to the audience, you know, okay. I won't do that, but if somehow there's a feeling of wanting to express themselves, that should be, and on the other side of that coin, one thing that's missing, at least in concert audiences, you still see it in Italian opera houses, there used to be all these complaints about new music, less so now, because the new music is a little more palatable to audiences, composers are more diverse, but if you don't like it, why aren't you booing us? Why aren't you letting us know how you feel about it? Audiences feel uncomfortable expressing displeasure, but they shouldn't. How are we going to know unless you tell us? I do get letters every so often. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: But, it's not the same thing as a good lusty boo. But once in a while, you will get a response that's unexpected from the audience and usually in music; I remember being on tour with the National Symphony. We were in Florida. We were playing Charles Ives' "Three Places in New England" the second one ends in this cacophony of sound, it just ridiculously distant and it's just kind of ends. And we heard from the back of the hall, "Oh my god." And then, a few weeks ago in Detroit when we opened our season, we were doing Beethoven 3 of all things, and after the first movement, we didn't finish, you don't usually expect applause there, and they didn't, but we heard "Wow." But better than that, was at the very end just as we finish that last chord and right before the audience started, somebody goes. "Hell yeah!" >> Nicholas A. Brown: Oh, that's awesome. >> Leonard Slatkin: And, you know, we all we loved it. >> Nicholas A. Brown: That's great. >> Leonard Slatkin: We thought, you know, okay you know they're really showing us how they felt about it. So, I really don't have a problem with this at all. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah, cool. Someone who was new to our concert audience here, this was like three or four year ago, it was probably a string quartet concert or something or a new music concert, and this person was a young person, twenty-something, very well dressed, clearly very intelligent, and they were just loving everything and they were clapping like it was a pop concert and not everyone appreciated it, but I was like "Come on, this is their opportunity to experience the art in the way that they believe." >> Leonard Slatkin: But, why not breakdown one of the barriers? And one of the barriers is the communication. It's not just we are playing for the audience and there's this thing up there, the invisible wall. No. We want to know how the audience feels. We react to that. We play. You can sense from the stage. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: Even with my back to them, I know if the audience is with us. You feel it. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Do you read frequently? >> Leonard Slatkin: Yes. >> Nicholas A. Brown: What kind of books are you reading now or do you prefer to read? >> Leonard Slatkin: I'm wrapping up; I used to have a couple books either on the electronic reader or, because that's for traveling, otherwise they kind of charge a little too much for the extra weight. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: Or at home, so I'm finishing up the recent biography of Toscanini which is really interesting by Joe Horowitz I think wrote this, I think. And I'm rereading James Baldwin's "Go Tell It on the Mountain." >> Nicholas A. Brown: Oh. >> Leonard Slatkin: I find sometimes when I see something in our culture, I find myself being thrown back to the 1960s where much of what we're experiencing today is reoccurring, but to be frankly in a much more horrifying manner. So, I go back and I read works that were influential to me as a young person to see if they still resonate and, in fact, they do resonate usually more than ever, more than ever. And I think now having seen the Ken Burns Civil War series, I will probably now go back and look at that differently and read, I'm not sure which book yet, but that came because this year I'm doing, I'm conducting a score to Buster Keaton's silent film "The General" usually recognized as one of the top ten or fifteen films ever made in this country and I had it scheduled for two places, and I got flack for saying well, this is about the South in the Civil War, and I said, "No it's not. It just happens to be then." Keaton's character is conflicted because he runs this train as the engineer and he's a very good engineer and his, the person he loves wants him to be a solider, but the Confederates don't want him to be their soldier because he's such a good engineer. There are no slaves in it. There's no Robert E. Lee in it. Yes, there's a battle and the South wins. Guess what? The South did win some battles, but one organization decided they would go through with it and they'll do it, but there will a panel discussion and the other one said no it's just too hot a topic. And, I find that sad. I find that erasing an important part of our history as conveyed via art. It's incomprehensible to me, but that happens. ^M00:56:11 It, I do understand why in Israel they don't play Wagner. I understand that and that will probably change at some point, but this is a different thing altogether. This is something where you want young people to understand the creation of our country. How we evolved and maybe how we've gotten to the point where we are today, devolved. So, I was glad I won one of the two battles anyhow, So, yeah I do different things. I read. I go to movies a lot, product of Hollywood. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yes. >> Leonard Slatkin: No choice. And I go to sports events. I got back in time to watch the last five innings of the World Series last night. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Are you a Dodgers fans? >> Leonard Slatkin: Sort of. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Oh, geez. >> Leonard Slatkin: I'm a Cardinal fan. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: And I'm a tiger fan. You know, I didn't really care, but I just I wanted to see Verlander go against Kershaw. I'm just sorry that didn't happen. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: I really wanted to see that. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: So. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Maybe next year. >> Leonard Slatkin: No. >> Nicholas A. Brown: No? >> Leonard Slatkin: No, the Cardinals/Tigers series next year. It's got to be. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Very good. >> Leonard Slatkin: It's not a prediction. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Oh, okay. Since we've just now gotten into some topics about American society how it evolves and such, I'd love to go back to "Songfest." >> Leonard Slatkin: Yeah. >> Nicholas A. Brown: "Songfest" is, of course, this collection of songs that Bernstein composed setting various different American poets from different periods, different backgrounds, comings, Whitman, Gertrude Stein, etcetera and with my experience of studying the piece is just it's bold in the statements it makes. It's not necessarily making positive statements at all for most it, but it feels like it stands apart from some of Bernstein's depictions of American culture and society in that it's more maybe realism and less optimism in some ways, I don't know. >> Leonard Slatkin: I agree, but I put it a different context, I'll give you five works in Bernstein's concert output which is what he wanted and hoped he would eventually be remembered for. He was really tired of being identified as the composer of "Westside Story." We should all be so lucky to have written "Westside Story." But, you start with his first symphony "Jeremiah", dedicated to his father and not exactly the subject matter, but the nature of his Jewish upbringing is infused within this work. Now you come to the second symphony, "Age of Anxiety", an Auden Eclogue all about alienation. Three people trying to figure out who they are what their role is and all that. It's not necessary to listen to this piece with that in mind, but this is very descriptive of Bernstein as his conducting career is developing, he hasn't written "Westside Story" yet, but he's written Broadway shows and it's like he's searching for what is his real place going to be, he doesn't quite know yet. Now, you come to "Kaddish" which is 1963, written just before Kennedy is assassinated but not performed until after. The Kaddish is the Jewish prayer for the dead where the word "death" is not mentioned, but the word "life" is three times. And there's a narration in this piece which begins to express the conflict between man and god or whatever you do or don't believe. The first performances were narrated by his wife, one a women is not allowed to recite a Kaddish in the traditional Jewish [inaudible], and the text was roundly criticized. It was also Bernstein trying to deal with the prevailing musical thought of the time which was 12-tone serial music which he does for some of the piece and then abandons and we hear him a little more. But it really is about that struggle of faith which would then continue into mass where now it's; sometimes things are we've got to hear Bernstein's mass. It's just the word "mass." It's not mass and b minor, it's not a mass. It is not specific to any religion. It is, again, about that struggle between somebody who should be pious in some way and not knowing how to deal with it, but it was very much a piece of the 60s. There was a rock group in it and all this kind of stuff. In some ways, to me it's not holy successful work, it's just a little bit too dedicated to the times, but it very much continues now Bernstein between the Kaddishness realizing that he's bisexual and he doesn't know how to come to grips with it. That's where his crisis of faith is. And finally we come to "Songfest." And you pointed it out, but I'm going to give you a slightly different spin on it. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yes, definitely. >> Leonard Slatkin: Of all the pieces that Bernstein wrote, this is the one that is the most autobiographical of Bernstein. You might have been going there anyway, because almost all of the poems deal with some aspect of his life. So, if you're talking about "The Pennycandystore", that's Bernstein's childhood, but doesn't it kind of 1940s style jazz. Then you come to Julia de Burgos the only song not in English, and this is about a fight for women's rights and for the possibility to break shackles. Then you come to the Whitman poem, the only poem we know that came later were written and is acknowledging his homosexuality and one of the most moving songs ever written, ever. And there's Bernstein again, and you go through it then you get the duet with Langston Hughes and the other name. >> Nicholas A. Brown: June Jordan. >> Leonard Slatkin: Yeah. First of all the juxta positions of the two poems is amazing how it works, but now you're talking about the Black Panthers over at Bernstein's apartment and one song after another tells you that this is an autobiography of Bernstein seen through these other poet's eyes. So, I treat these five pieces as being in a way better than reading any biography of the composer, because they tell you what he stood for in his life through his music and the use of the words that he chose. >> Nicholas A. Brown: June Jordan actually recorded the poem. >> Leonard Slatkin: Oh, really? >> Nicholas A. Brown: Right there. >> Leonard Slatkin: Wow. >> Nicholas A. Brown: It was pretty wild and we have it up on our website. >> Leonard Slatkin: You don't have the Langston Hughes one though? >> Nicholas A. Brown: No, I don't know if we have. >> Leonard Slatkin: Wouldn't that be cool to put them [brief laughter] together? >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yes, in the same realm. >> Leonard Slatkin: And it's, "Songfest" has an unusual history, because it was not premiered as a totality. The first performance was of, I don't remember how many of his songs, but maybe six, seven, and it was for a July 4th concert. Now, July 4th here in Washington, you know, flags are out and people are going out and they want to hear "Stars and Stripes" and they want to hear "1812" and all these things. Well, all of a sudden came this piece with texts that were angry, texts that were touchy subjects people did not want to deal with. And I believe [inaudible] was then not allowed to play 4th of July for a couple of years, and the administrations now were very careful about what could and could not be done on this occasion. I'm sure they thought Bernstein was just going to write us a good old patriotic piece and we'd get the preview of "1600 Pennsylvania Avenue." >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yeah. >> Leonard Slatkin: But, that wasn't to happen. So, finally he put it altogether and the piece was premiered here; he recorded it, but I also have another piece to start the program. Very rarely played, he wrote an overture for Rostropovich's very first season it's called "Slava." It's great fun. It's really almost like "Candide" on steroids. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yes. >> Leonard Slatkin: And Slava conducted it. In it, there's a portion where the orchestra used to, they don't do anymore, you're supposed to yell out "Pooks" which is the name of Slava's dog who came around all the time, but at the end the orchestra does to go Slava! for Rostropovich and then comes the end, but those are the two pieces that the orchestra played that Bernstein wrote for them and I thought they would be nice and they're coupled with "Sacre du printemps" for the simple reason I grew up with his, Bernstein's first recording of it. The first time I met him it was the piece he was rehearsing. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Oh, wow. >> Leonard Slatkin: And I thought if I had to pick a non-Bernstein piece other than Mahler, to associate with Bernstein it's the "Rite of Spring." >> Nicholas A. Brown: Excellent. To wrap up, I'd like to ask a favor of you. >> Leonard Slatkin: Sure. >> Nicholas A. Brown: And that is to share with us and our viewers a piece of advice for how musicians and people in the cultural sector, how we can use our position as public figures with art to motivate community engagement? ^M01:06:02 >> Leonard Slatkin: You have asked basically the question of our time. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Yes. >> Leonard Slatkin: And my response to that is one, always remember as an artist, whatever kind of artist you are, why you decided to enter this profession. What drove you? Maybe it was a person in your life who led you on this path. Maybe you saw or heard something that inspired you. If you don't keep that in the forefront of your mind, you're just doing a job. To be an artist is a very special honor not many people get to do it. And so, conveying the passion and the love for what you do, that alone should be enough to help inspire others. The most noble part of what all of us do is not what takes place in the museum, in the concert hall, it's what takes place in the classroom. A big change in our society has to do with the lack of education that exists in the arts, but also has to do with the change for those people who are people of faith. Music has become quite secondary in church services, synagogues, mosques it's not thought of as being the inspirational part of what going to worship is, and if you're an agnostic or an atheist and you've decided that you don't believe in any of that, although I'm Jewish by heritage and birth, I'm not what one calls devout or practicing. I'm just not. And the reason I'm not, is because I get to do something that people would love to be able to do. I take these circles and these dots and those little instructions left to us, they're sitting there on a piece of paper and I have these musicians in front me and I'm bringing those ideas to life. I'm doing what doctors would love to do. I can resurrect them, sometimes successfully, sometimes not, but I can that and if everybody in our profession would take more seriously that this is not just a job, but it's a real privilege and a responsibility to pass it on; conveying that love, conveying that passion. That's what's going to spread out into the community. Make sure people know about what you do, who you are, get in touch with marketing people, with PR people, whenever you can explain even controversial art is a positive because it's something created that never existed before. We really wish more people could do that. You're a young person now; what happened between my generation and today's young generation? We became a more visual-oriented society; pop singer makes a song, create the video. Kids are driving or doing whatever they do listening in their things, song comes on, are they really into the song or are they flashing to how it looked? Which is usually a director's vision of the song, not necessarily the artist who created it. I want to get us back to the time when all of us had the power of imagination, as some people would put it, be able to live your dreams, and if we can do that as a society, in conjunction with physical responsibility, with an aim towards things not going towards the violent end that they seem to go to sadly these days, but understand that bringing the beauty of imagination to the general public I think we would all be in a much better place. >> Nicholas A. Brown: Well, you've left me hopeful. Thank you for sharing those insights. >> Leonard Slatkin: My pleasure. >> Nicholas A. Brown: And spending this time with us. You can learn about the Library of Congress's Preforming Arts Resources at loc.gov and please join us on our YouTube Channel, youtube.com/libraryofcongress, excuse me, youtube.com/librarycongress for a series of interviews with leading American conductors. Thanks and have a great day. >> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress. Visit us at loc.gov. ^E01:11:13