>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. ^M00:00:04 ^M00:00:16 >> Please welcome to our stage, Carla Hayden and David Ferriero. ^M00:00:21 [ Music ] ^M00:00:27 [ Clapping ] ^M00:00:42 >> Carla Hayden: Well -- >> David Ferriero: How have you been? >> Carla Hayden: We call ourselves partners in crime. >> David Ferriero: We are though we're not going to talk about the crime part of it, right? [Laughter] We're just going to talk about the partner part. >> Carla Hayden: Well, what's been really interesting since I've been in the position of Library [inaudible] is the fact that people ask me well, what does the National Archives do? You know -- >> David Ferriero: What do you mean? What does that mean? >> Carla Hayden: What does the archivist do? You're the Library of Congress. And then this -- there's a confusion about the histories and the roles of each of the institutions. And I've learned a lot in that even about the tank coming up to reclaim the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, and was there a third? >> David Ferriero: We call it the Constitution. ^M00:01:42 [ Laughter ] ^M00:01:44 >> Carla Hayden: That were held by the Library of Congress and that type of thing. So could you -- >> David Ferriero: Well you got an earlier start than we did. It wasn't until the 1930s that the United States got serious about its record. And it was Franklin Roosevelt who was passionate about records that we actually created the -- he signed the legislation that created the National Archives. The charters that Carla is referring to had been in the custody of the State Department and then at the Library of Congress. And when the Archives building was built, a beautiful tabernacle was created for the Declaration of Independence. Doors opened in 1935 but the librarian of Congress refused to release the Declaration. ^M00:02:32 [ Laughter ] ^M00:02:34 And I've held that against you [laughter] ever since. >> Carla Hayden: I wasn't born then but I knew this was going to happen. >> David Ferriero: And it wasn't until Harry Truman came into office that he, you know, kind of laid down the law with the new librarian of Congress that they really needed to deliver that document where it belonged. So as Carla describes it, it was a really military ceremony with tanks and military people lining the steps of the -- and she claims she always describes it as a grab for the Declaration [laughter] but it -- >> Carla Hayden: Tanks literally -- >> David Ferriero: -- was the only transfer of the document to its rightful place. >> Carla Hayden: And we have photographs. Photographs -- >> David Ferriero: We do. >> Carla Hayden: -- of the people. The tanks with the -- what are those? >> David Ferriero: Howitzers. >> Carla Hayden: Yes. [Laughter] Right there waiting and you can imagine the curators and the librarians thinking well maybe it's time. And who was the librarian of the Congress then? Do you remember? >> David Ferriero: Oh I forget. Someone here must remember. >> Carla Hayden: Someone here. Winston Tab is here. He is my check on all the time. >> David Ferriero: Oh Winston. You were here. What was the -- ^M00:03:44 [ Laughter ] ^M00:03:48 >> Carla Hayden: But that was the start of the kind of clarification of roles and to really divide up things. >> David Ferriero: The Archives was created to collect and protect and made available the records of the United States government. So anything that was created by the government. So the question -- the natural question is what about the stuff that was created before 1934 when the legislation was signed? A lot of it is in our custody. Some of it is at the Library of Congress. Since the materials were stored in attics and basements all over town, a lot of it was lost through the fire and theft and flood but what we have now is a dividing line between everything the government creates and that's me, and everything they don't create which is you. >> Carla Hayden: And sometimes I like to -- and there are times when I'm glad you're you. [Laughter] I've learned that. >> David Ferriero: And there are times when I wish I were you. ^M00:04:47 [ Laughter ] ^M00:04:49 >> Carla Hayden: And I've described it in another way too that for instance, Truman and his official records might be with the Truman Library and I'd really like to get into those things too with the Presidential Libraries and some of the letters that he wrote to his family. So the person is where you might -- the things that the person, the diaries, all of the things like that, the personal part and the personal life of an official might be at the Library of Congress. And so the papers of 23 presidents from George Washington to Coolidge are at the Library of Congress. And we were both in Starkville, Mississippi. >> David Ferriero: Starkville, Mississippi, where Ulysses S. Grant is still probably revolving in his grave through [multiple speakers]. >> Carla Hayden: And the Abraham Lincoln. >> David Ferriero: Yes. >> Carla Hayden: Collection. >> David Ferriero: Ulysses S. Grant Presidential Library -- >> Carla Hayden: Library is in Starkville. >> David Ferriero: At -- in Mississippi. Can you believe it? >> Carla Hayden: And we were there. >> David Ferriero: We were. >> Carla Hayden: And [multiple speakers]. ^M00:05:59 >> David Ferriero: It turns out there are more than 200 Presidential sites around the country. People beyond the Library of Congress and the National Archives who have some kind of responsibility for some aspect of a President's life and they're all meeting in Washington in August. >> Carla Hayden: And what's interesting about the Presidential Libraries, the Library of Congress has custody of the actual papers and documents of Ulysses S. Grant and what some of the Presidential Libraries do is what they will collect and make copies of things from different collections about a President and put them in [inaudible]. >> David Ferriero: Those Presidential cites, that's right. Yes. >> Carla Hayden: Place and that's how the -- some of the Presidential Libraries have -- been established. >> David Ferriero: So when Franklin Roosevelt created the National Archives, he also decided to have a Presidential Library. So technically his was the first -- I'm convinced he was a closet archivist. He was really passionate about his papers and understood the importance of archives. Spent a lot of time hiring the first archivist and spent a lot of time supporting that first archivist, Robert Connor [phonetic], in his work as he was trying to figure out where the records are, and more importantly, to convince the agency heads to give up their records because that wasn't something that people were interested in doing. So Roosevelt created his own library or Herbert -- whoever decided he wanted a library at that point but this was all voluntary. It was all voluntary up until 1972 when thanks to President Nixon and his thoughts that he owned his own records that legislation was passed, the Presidential Records Act, which made it government property. So 1972 is kind of our marker for you have to donate. You have to give your papers to the National Archive. >> Carla Hayden: And so the role really became official then. >> David Ferriero: Yeah. >> Carla Hayden: And then the other departments and that's another confusion that happens sometimes. >> David Ferriero: Well it's a separate set of laws. Presidential Records Act was 1972. The Federal Records Act was created much earlier than that. And that guides all of the records management activities for the Executive Branch. So all of the 275 Executive Branch Cabinet level and agencies and departments. >> Carla Hayden: What about congressional records of [multiple speakers] -- >> David Ferriero: We provide by a gentleman's agreement way back when, we provide courtesy storage for the records of Congress and service them. They are the records of Congress but they aren't at the Library of Congress. >> Carla Hayden: And you -- and I want all of the people watching and listening to realize that the joy of working with your colleagues. Some that you've known. I've known David his time at New York Public and all of that, is that you have this kind of friendly, kind of historical whatever competition. [Laughter] So when you talk about your -- >> David Ferriero: And some grudges. Still carrying -- >> Carla Hayden: And grudges. >> David Ferriero: -- some grudges. [Laughter] >> Carla Hayden: So when you talk about and I know you've seen that movie, National Treasure. >> David Ferriero: Yes. >> Carla Hayden: You got all the kids. >> David Ferriero: Yes. >> Carla Hayden: And they're doing it but the Library of Congress has that first printing that just had John Hancock on it. And then they send it out. >> David Ferriero: It wouldn't have been that first printing if those original signors didn't sign something. >> Carla Hayden: See. ^M00:09:37 [ Laughter ] ^M00:09:39 And -- >> David Ferriero: Which I have. >> Carla Hayden: And David Ferriero -- [laughter] right, right, okay. It's okay. It's okay. And the Gettysburg Address, you know, that he took on the field. >> David Ferriero: That's right. >> Carla Hayden: The contents of Abraham Lincoln's pockets the night he was assassinated. >> David Ferriero: [Inaudible] I know. >> Carla Hayden: Four locks of Thomas Jefferson's hair. ^M00:10:01 [ Laughter ] ^M00:10:06 Just saying. [Laughter] You know, so there is kind of fun to have this kind of historical back and forth with people. Oh those Tony Marks [phonetic]. He's got a few artifacts too at New York Public. >> David Ferriero: Yeah. The [inaudible] stolen from the Vatican by Napoleon. >> Carla Hayden: Okay. >> David Ferriero: Yeah. >> Carla Hayden: There are a few things over there. So everybody's -- and let's not even bring up Hamilton, right? [Laughter] Let's -- okay let's bring up Hamilton. [Inaudible] how did you pull that off? >> David Ferriero: We have Hamilton's -- oh it's through the New York Public Library actually. Tommy Kale [phonetic] [laughter] who was the Director of Hamilton was a member of the Library for the Performing Arts Visiting Committee. And he and I became good friends and when we decided to honor Ron [inaudible] and Lynn Manuel [phonetic] it was through Tommy Kale -- >> Carla Hayden: Oh was that really good. >> David Ferriero: -- we got all three of them in house. Yes. >> Carla Hayden: Well, we're not going to name drop. Okay. >> David Ferriero: Not at all. >> Carla Hayden: We're just going to let that go. >> David Ferriero: Not at all. >> Carla Hayden: We're going to let that go. >> David Ferriero: But we do have Hamilton's Oath of Allegiance signed at Valley Forge by George Washington. >> Carla Hayden: And [laughter] we just digitized the last note to his wife, Eliza. ^M00:11:28 [ Laughter ] ^M00:11:34 [ Inaudible ] ^M00:11:36 >> David Ferriero: Not yet. ^M00:11:37 [ Laughter ] ^M00:11:41 >> Carla Hayden: It's so much fun. And then you get Tony on the side -- >> David Ferriero: We have [inaudible] to the government outlining her poverty asking for support from the federal government. >> Carla Hayden: And we just are finishing digitizing all of her correspondence of the rest of her life when she did his -- and made -- unburnished his reputation. >> David Ferriero: Yeah. >> Carla Hayden: So we could go on. >> David Ferriero: What else are you doing in the digitization? >> Carla Hayden: We can go on. >> David Ferriero: Okay. >> Carla Hayden: You just name a historical figure. If they were official, that's what you have though. >> David Ferriero: That's right. So what are you doing in -- what are we doing together in the digitization? >> Carla Hayden: Well, we are doing some cool stuff. Why don't you tell them a little bit about that? >> David Ferriero: We're working on the Terrific Exhibit with the BNF tracing the French role in the American Revolution. Working with, I think you guys are involved in the New York Public Library. >> Carla Hayden: New York Public's very involved. >> David Ferriero: The BNF, Library of Congress, and the -- >> Carla Hayden: And the BNF, just in case people -- >> David Ferriero: And another project with the British Library, George -- >> Carla Hayden: The two Georges. >> David Ferriero: Two Georges about the beginnings of this country, King George and our King George. >> Carla Hayden: We're calling it the two Georges because it's their George, George the Third, and George Washington. And the cool thing about it is that they were reading some of the same books at the same time. They had similar interests and so it'll be a joint exhibit with the Royal Archives. >> David Ferriero: That's right. >> Carla Hayden: Windsor. We didn't go to the wedding but [laughter] our research timing didn't coincide but the Royal Archives, Kings College, and William and Mary here. So that type of collaboration happens all the time and we keep -- and we mentioned Tony Marks and New York Public because in terms of a public library that has a collection that complements some of the things that we're involved in. New York Public is the library that we work closely with in different ways. So the burning question that people have asked me already and it came up at a session, one of the sessions, what do we do and how do we deal with technology going forward? Some of the historical records now are going to be in a different format. >> David Ferriero: They already are. >> Carla Hayden: And you've been really on the forefront of that with your -- you were putting a hard stop on collecting in analog. >> David Ferriero: I'm sure you've read in the press about the President's Reform Plan that was just issued last week. If you go to page 103, you'll see a two page description of the National Archives contribution to that reform plan. And what it spells out is the message that we've already delivered to the agencies that we are no longer accepting paper at the end of 2022. They have until 2022 to get their paper to us. That they -- that's in their custody now that is scheduled to be transferred but after 2022, it's digital only. So the agencies have already been prepared for this. They've already -- many of them 85% of them about have been already digitizing their records. So we're in pretty good shape that way but the most important factor is that those agencies are already creating their records electronically and they have been for some time. So this is not, you know, a great surprise, a great shock. And just a data point, since I know there are some people who are confused about what's going on with the Obama -- the planning for the Obama Library. It turns out that more than 80% of the Obama records are born digital. There is no paper equivalent. So the plan is with the agreement of the Obama Foundation that we will create the first all digital Presidential library. The money would have been invested in creating a physical facility in Chicago is going to be devoted to digitization of that 15% that isn't already digital. And that's, you know, a very different model for Presidential libraries. It's a very different model for how we deliver information and service the Presidential records but it's an exciting opportunity for us to rethink a whole new way of communicating, connecting with our users. >> Carla Hayden: Are you going to be borrowing some techniques from museums and things in terms of how you display -- >> David Ferriero: The plan is that the foundation has already designed and will build a museum. And we will loan to them artifacts because the Presidential libraries are a combination of paper or film, photographs, and lots of artifacts, gifts from foreign heads of state, gifts from the American people, more macaroni pictures than you've ever seen in your life. [Laughter] >> Carla Hayden: The things from children. >> David Ferriero: Yes. >> Carla Hayden: Hopefully. >> David Ferriero: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Carla Hayden: Okay. >> David Ferriero: Every one of the Presidential libraries has this kind of collection. So those are the kinds of things that will end up in the museum part of the -- >> Carla Hayden: What about letters from young people? >> David Ferriero: That's part of -- those are all digitized now. >> Carla Hayden: Oh that's going -- >> David Ferriero: They're all digitized. >> Carla Hayden: to be very cool -- >> David Ferriero: Yeah. >> Carla Hayden: -- to see all the letters and I know that's a big part. >> David Ferriero: Well that's important to me because when I became the archivist and met with the Directors of the Presidential libraries for the first time that Director of the Kennedy handed me a copy of a letter that a kid wrote to the President asking for information about the proposed Peace Corps. And it's a letter from me. ^M00:17:45 [ Laughter ] ^M00:17:47 Two weeks later the Eisenhower called to say they had found two letters from me to President Eisenhower and when I visited the LBJ Library they gave me a copy of the letter that I sent to LBJ congratulating him for signing the Civil Rights Act. >> Carla Hayden: David, you've been working on this for a while. ^M00:18:01 [ Laughter ] ^M00:18:04 [ Clapping ] ^M00:18:07 That is cool. ^M00:18:09 [ Clapping ] ^M00:18:12 >> David Ferriero: So I'm sure you've heard about our sleepovers and one of the activities during our sleepovers is an opportunity for the kids to write a letter to the President. And we deliver those letters to the President on the next Monday morning. And the White House then supplies us with a letter that we can send back to them thanking the kids for their interests and some words of encouragement signed by the President which is a pretty nice touch. >> Carla Hayden: And I must tell you, there have been wonderful moments and things that have been challenging but one of the most challenging has been trying to figure out as a former children's library, right? How I can top this wonderful thing that you do with children in the Archives? They sleepover by the Constitution, right? ^M00:19:05 [ Laughter ] ^M00:19:09 In that wonderful place, there they are. It's night and they're spooky and they're all really having fun. And then the next morning and I've heard so many people tell me this, you know the Archivist of the United States makes pancakes for the kids the next day. [Laughter] So now I don't worry -- we have Thomas Jefferson's recipe for macaroni and cheese [inaudible]. I'm trying to get David and David -- >> David Ferriero: She has been trying to horn into this event since she arrived [inaudible]. >> Carla Hayden: [Laughter] And this is really true because I have -- I said okay, maybe we can make a progressive weekend. >> David Ferriero: A progressive sleepover. >> Carla Hayden: See he knows. [Laughter] I've got him -- at least you're saying it, David. [Laughter] Right? Don't you think that'd be neat? So we have a new gang of three, you know, in Washington. They have gangs of four and five and eight, everything. So there's a new gang in town, it's the gang of three. It's David Skorton, David Ferriero, and Carla Hayden. And we, the Smithsonian, the Archives, and the Library, and we've actually met and we talk about this. And we might have what if the kids started out at the Natural History Museum, right? With all that stuff and then [laughter] I think that would be -- or they slept there because I think, you know, that's -- and so we're trying to figure this out. And I think evenings should be with us with the macaroni and cheese. >> David Ferriero: I think Air and Space, I think Air and Space already does a sleepover. >> Carla Hayden: See. >> David Ferriero: See. >> Carla Hayden: See we're working together now. >> David Ferriero: But you did the mention the fact that David Skorton, that's an important thing -- >> Carla Hayden: Yes. >> David Ferriero: -- thing that we should talk about. And that is the close working relationship that the three of us had which is unlike -- >> Carla Hayden: Any -- ^M00:20:52 >> David Ferriero: You know, I've been there for eight years almost nine years and this is the first time that the three institutions have really gotten serious about working together. >> Carla Hayden: And it's fun because when -- and so I invited the two Davids over to the Library of Congress for the luncheon. And of course, our curators and librarians put out the good silver, we call it. You know, all of our stuff, right? And they're in there. And we knew that this David was opera buff. So we had one of our music librarians bring out this wonderful -- these just opera things that -- tell them some of the stuff because you know. I don't -- >> David Ferriero: It was the first printing of the first liberto for an opera. >> Carla Hayden: Right. >> David Ferriero: Which I had never -- I've never even heard of which was [inaudible]. >> Carla Hayden: He had never heard of it. And then David Skorton is a jazz fanatic. So we brought out the Billie Strayhorn things that we had just gotten and all the Jelly Roll Morton. And then the curator was so good, he knew opera and jazz. >> David Ferriero: And could sing it. >> Carla Hayden: So he was -- >> David Ferriero: And he sang -- >> Carla Hayden: And he sang. [Inaudible] Plus we had the chicken salad thing and all that. It was very nice. It was very nice. And so this curator had a piece by Jelly Roll Morton who is known for jazz that bridge the two types of music because Jelly Roll Morton did an operetta or -- >> David Ferriero: That's right. That's right. >> Carla Hayden: -- did something and so he just slid right into that. Now David Skorton and I think we can reveal this, wanted to get the card of the curator. >> David Ferriero: Oh yes. >> Carla Hayden: So there is some poaching [inaudible]. >> David Ferriero: He was trying to steal the curator. >> Carla Hayden: Right there. >> David Ferriero: Right in front of her. >> Carla Hayden: [Laughter] Right in front of me. >> David Ferriero: How long have you been here? Are you happy here? >> Carla Hayden: Are you happy? ^M00:22:50 [ Laughter ] ^M00:22:52 Yes he's happy. And I had to talk to the guy -- >> David Ferriero: Yeah, you told him he was happy. >> Carla Hayden: Yeah. I had to talk to the guy afterwards. So are you happy? So that kind of -- but it's really a lot of fun when you start joining forces. >> David Ferriero: Yeah but the pressure. See we're doing the next one. We're doing the next lunch. >> Carla Hayden: I'm afraid. >> David Ferriero: And the pressure is already on about what are we going to show you. >> Carla Hayden: And that's the really cool stuff because women suffrage is coming up and you have a lot of things and Smithsonian. We're doing an exhibit. We even talked about it as you mentioned Air and Space Museum. You have for the Wright Brothers some pretty cool things. >> David Ferriero: The Wright Brothers patent. Yes. >> Carla Hayden: The patent. And the Library of Congress has the actual papers. >> David Ferriero: That's right. >> Carla Hayden: David McCullough did his book on the Wright Brothers was really based on that. And then the Smithsonian has the plane. >> David Ferriero: The model. Yeah. >> Carla Hayden: Yeah. >> David Ferriero: Yeah. >> Carla Hayden: And so we're really working to see what are some of the things that we have that each of us can bring together for special exhibits to really put things when one is having an exhibit on something, put something about it in our own institution. >> David Ferriero: That's right. >> Carla Hayden: And the Smithsonian we were very pleased. We went halvies [phonetic] to purchase the first photo, known photo, of Harriet Tubman. And it's going to be exhibited in the new -- we digitized it, took care of it, and it's going to be on exhibit at the new Museum of African American History in College Town. >> David Ferriero: That's great. >> Carla Hayden: So that type of -- [clapping] And you'll see more of it. Now we'll still have the friendly rivalry. It's always fun. And when Tony comes to play and puts his thing down there and all of that but just getting this community of history and culture seems to be growing. And we work together for that. >> David Ferriero: So what has surprised you about -- >> Carla Hayden: At the Library of Congress? >> David Ferriero: About working in Washington? >> Carla Hayden: Oh. ^M00:25:02 [ Laughter ] ^M00:25:07 And Tony's over here going don't say anything. Tony's like [inaudible]. I still live in Baltimore and -- >> David Ferriero: That says it all. >> Carla Hayden: -- I commute. >> David Ferriero: That says it all. >> Carla Hayden: No, no, no, I commute and it's really interesting because I've lived in other -- when I lived in Chicago, there's so many commuters that came in. People would come into Chicago from Gary, Indiana, every day. And so this idea that people come in from different states, different places every day and I'm taking the train now. And you just see how many people come in to the city and then it goes -- it's like elastic. And I didn't get a sense of that before. You know, you go in and you think no, there are people who live there and it grows. And it really expands. And how many -- and there's an energy there that's similar to New York where you go into New York and you just feel a pace and it changes. And that's why when I go back to Baltimore it's like, you know, we have the Baltimore [inaudible] and it's different. >> David Ferriero: It's -- >> Carla Hayden: It's -- >> David Ferriero: And there are a lot of young people in [inaudible] which is really -- >> Carla Hayden: And they all walk fast and they have [laughter] two or three devices. >> David Ferriero: Yeah. >> Carla Hayden: And they're just -- >> David Ferriero: But they're all smart. And they're all passionate about what they're doing and -- >> Carla Hayden: Yeah. >> David Ferriero: It's really rewarding -- >> Carla Hayden: The brain -- >> David Ferriero: -- to work with them. >> Carla Hayden: -- power -- >> David Ferriero: Yeah. >> Carla Hayden: -- there is something. And so the Library of Congress -- oh, you probably already do it. >> David Ferriero: Probably. What is it? ^M00:26:52 Another idea you've stolen from us? >> Carla Hayden: Yes. [Laughter] Because we're going to talk briefly about one and in the public citizen archivist and the citizen historian because that is really cool. So we're working on -- here you have in Washington, D.C., literally some of the brightest, smartest young people you will ever ever meet. And they are just -- some look like they're 12 years old. [Laughter] And they are policy -- I mean they're just something. And so we have tried to think of how can we get these young millennials or they're not even millennials, some of them. >> David Ferriero: Right. >> Carla Hayden: They're -- engaged because they are so smart. So they want to do -- so we've had scavenger hunts and a little Jeopardy and some really cool things to engage them. We have libation sometimes and things like that but they -- yes. Thomas Jefferson was a wine connoisseur. ^M00:27:51 [ Laughter ] ^M00:27:54 You know, we work it. To get these young people engaged in things because they want to still learn. ^M00:28:05 A lot of them are coming from these colleges and they're right out of college and they're -- you know still in Georgetown and they're doing all this stuff. So they will sit and listen to someone talk about something or author or something. They will. And they want to meet people. One young congressional staffer said, you know, we're -- you know our salaries might, you know, we're here. And so this is like date night. They -- to go and do something kind of just [inaudible] in the summer. Free popcorn. How about that? [Laughter] Big screen -- >> David Ferriero: Ooh, free popcorn. >> Carla Hayden: -- on the lawn. With the machine. It's not just -- >> David Ferriero: Oh my God with a machine too. >> Carla Hayden: With the machine. [Laughter] With the machine free popcorn and so then they get to see -- oh I think we might have you a little bit on that. >> David Ferriero: No I don't think so. >> Carla Hayden: Wait a minute. Okay. Wait a minute. >> David Ferriero: Let me talk about the Young Founders. >> Carla Hayden: Not fundraising. >> David Ferriero: This is an idea that I took from New York Public Library, the Young Lions. A similar kind of group really interested in the library. Been in existence for what? Twenty-five years or so. Some fun day an award, fiction award for a young author. And so I took that idea to the New York -- to the National Archives and we have a group, similar group that we're working with, the Young Founders Society trying to engage them in the life of the National Archives. This is a group of folks who are drawn in all kinds of different directions. So getting them to focus has been the challenge but -- >> Carla Hayden: We don't have a name yet. >> David Ferriero: Oh well. >> Carla Hayden: So we're working on that. I like Young Founders because then you feel -- >> David Ferriero: Well it's already been taken. >> Carla Hayden: I know. I'm saying this is -- but that's the good thing. >> David Ferriero: Yeah. >> Carla Hayden: So we are working on how we can get this group and it's going to be really though -- actually it's the same group of kids -- or young people. >> David Ferriero: Probably. Probably. >> Carla Hayden: That will be going to these types of things and that -- >> David Ferriero: Well, if you have any literature you want me to share with my group I'll -- >> Carla Hayden: Well let's talk about your citizen archivist because that one -- >> David Ferriero: Sure. >> Carla Hayden: -- we just took almost verbatim and made it citizen historian because of the transcription and things. >> David Ferriero: So when I was hired in 2009 by President Obama and on his first day in office, he told his senior staff that the government doesn't have all the answers and we need to figure out ways to engage the American public in solving some of those problems. And I took that to heart and worked with the staff to think about ways that we could engage the American public in the work that we do. And the result of that was the creation of the citizen archivist dashboard which has a number of activities that you can help us do our work. ^M00:31:06 Tagging photographs. Identifying this is become fairly standard now, identifying people in places in photographs. But I think the centerpiece, the thing I'm most excited about is the transcription project that we have going on where we've loaded thousands of records. Kids aren't being taught [inaudible]. >> Carla Hayden: Cursive. >> David Ferriero: [Inaudible] or -- in schools. >> Carla Hayden: Definitely not [inaudible]. >> David Ferriero: [Laughter] And I have billions of records in cursive. So we're, you know, disenfranchising an entire generation and future generations because they can read this stuff. So we have people all over the country and actually all over the world who are helping us transcribe in this citizen archivist dashboard activity. So that's a way that we're trying to engage the public in helping do our work. >> Carla Hayden: And we just put citizen historian and took it because the model is so great. And there is the same need at the Library of Congress. >> David Ferriero: That's right. >> Carla Hayden: Susan B. Anthony's papers. All these people. Frederick Douglas. Some of the things that are in cursive that literally young people and because of the writing, sometimes other people can't read these documents. So the Library of Congress is launching citizen historian and we even reference and say it started with the National Archives, citizen archivist because we want people that are doing one to think about doing the other too. >> David Ferriero: Well and we're also working together on are history hub site where we're -- our reference folks are sharing, collaborating -- >> Carla Hayden: Right. >> David Ferriero: -- and providing reference service to anyone who has a particular reference question. We're fielding and sharing information from our own collections to solve the research needs of the people who are using history hub. So that's another -- and we're bringing the Smithsonian on board with that also. >> Carla Hayden: Right. >> David Ferriero: And I noticed that your folks were at the National Archives last week for an editathon [phonetic], a Wikipedia editathon. >> Carla Hayden: Yes. >> David Ferriero: So we're working together on Wikipedia. >> Carla Hayden: Yeah, working together. And I also want to share what I know we've talked about a little bit. The concern about history going forward and records being created digitally and how we deal with storage issues, security, technology, keeping up in the future, and there's real concern at time. That future historians how will get these items as history's being made in a different format. >> David Ferriero: It's the one thing -- of all the things that keep me up at night, this is the one -- >> Carla Hayden: That's the one. >> David Ferriero: -- that keeps me up at night. Yeah. It's ensuring that, you know, our mandate is to ensure that people have access to the records in perpetuity and you know, we're barely able to guarantee that in paper but being able to guarantee that in the electronic environment is our biggest challenge. >> Carla Hayden: Is -- >> David Ferriero: And I always have in the back of my head the work that Nicholson Baker did in a book entitled Double Fold. >> Carla Hayden: Yes. >> David Ferriero: Where he chastised us for microfilming all of those early American newspapers and throwing out the originals. And leaving us in a situation where here in the United States we did not have copies of our own newspapers. >> Carla Hayden: That's right. >> David Ferriero: Because the microfilm was -- and the microfilm is so poorly created and disintegrated in some cases but there was no -- in lots of reels no quality control. So the images weren't perfect and the worst thing was that many of the -- The New York Herald was the first, I believe, newspaper to introduce color into the comics on Sunday editions. ^M00:35:26 And the newspaper microfilm is black and white. So we lost the whole sense of our history in a flawed project. >> Carla Hayden: And that -- >> David Ferriero: But I am happy to report Nicholson Baker, the month that the book came out, Nicholson Baker's book came out, the librarian community, of course, have circled the wagons and Nicholson is our enemy. [Laughter] And I was opening a new storage facility at Duke University and I needed a speaker. And I invited Nick to come and be our speaker to open because here is this warehouse of paper. Isn't this wonderful, Nick? And we had dinner -- Nick had raised the money from his borrowing from in-laws to buy from the British Library the only paper copies that existed. The British Library was [inaudible] them. And Nick bought them and setup a warehouse in New Hampshire. He became a newspaper librarian and was providing photographs and things, scanned images from this collection. So and I invited Nick to be our speaker. He came. We had dinner. And I told him when you get tired of newspaper librarian, this wonderful new facility that you just dedicated would be a great place to house them. And so those newspapers are at Duke University now. >> Carla Hayden: Right. >> David Ferriero: Thank God. So I always have that in my mind when I'm thinking about what we're dealing with with this electronic information. So that we don't get into the position where we've lost everything because of the security things -- >> Carla Hayden: Sure. >> David Ferriero: Technology, all kinds of issues. >> Carla Hayden: And the security thing that becomes even more of an issue with the technology. The Library of Congress, for instance, has storage modules and they are modules but think Amazon and what those warehouses look like in Fort Meade, military base. [Inaudible] that. The electronic environment in terms of security and making those transitions as technology progresses. So there's that fiscal part that's a major challenge too. >> David Ferriero: Exactly and we're doing a lot of work with the industry to educate them about what the needs are around tools that -- for, in my case, the agencies need to create and maintain their records. The situation in the federal government is very much the situation that I remember from the university settings where every agency -- I mean every faculty was able to go off and build their own system or buy something off the shelf. And there was no interoperability. There was no enterprise approach to technology and that is clearly the description of the federal government that -- >> Carla Hayden: So each department -- >> David Ferriero: Yeah. >> Carla Hayden: -- has its own way -- >> David Ferriero: Right. >> Carla Hayden: -- of sealing [inaudible]. >> David Ferriero: So the state of information technology infrastructure is not where it should be and that's another issue that's outlined in the reform plan. Another point that is in support of the work that we're trying to do. >> Carla Hayden: What about the resources to keep up? >> David Ferriero: Well that's -- yeah. How's your budget? >> Carla Hayden: Ah. [Laughter] Well the technology, it actually been very supported in terms of the technology effort and bringing the Library of Congress to be a modern and very efficient. And that's been very heartening coming in and seeing that and having that kind of support. And you know, that you have to maintain it and also the staffing that you need to have that digital strategy that's going to be able to look forward and keep going. So we just hired a digital strategy manager and are going to do more with that because we have to. We have to look at and also look back at the same time. >> David Ferriero: Exactly. >> Carla Hayden: So it's a fun time in a lot of ways because -- >> David Ferriero: You should -- we should actually put that -- >> Carla Hayden: -- we're getting a lot of people from the technology sector that are coming into the library to work and to help us to try to solve some of these things. And that's brought a -- some energy and some cross fertilization. That's been real exciting for us. >> David Ferriero: That's something we should put on our agenda for the three of us when we -- >> Carla Hayden: The technology. And we even had and I referred back to Tony. One of his -- he hired someone from Great Britain to come over -- >> David Ferriero: BBC. >> Carla Hayden: The BBC. That is a technology digital guru and we had him come to the Library of Congress and talk to our staff about what New York Public is doing. They're -- we're a little jealous of some of the stuff but they're doing a lot of cool things. And we had him come. So just this cross fertilization between institutions, between types of libraries, archives, has been, I think, helpful for us to share and say hey we have common problems and what could we do together. Now the -- we have the young professionals. We have the children. Are you working on things for seniors? >> David Ferriero: Things for seniors. >> Carla Hayden: Oh good. ^M00:41:13 [ Laughter ] ^M00:41:21 >> David Ferriero: Yeah we're planning a sleepover for -- >> Carla Hayden: No -- ^M00:41:24 [ Laughter ] ^M00:41:25 [ Clapping ] ^M00:41:30 Well we have a wonderful partnership with AARP, I must say. They've supported the Book Festival and some other things. And -- >> David Ferriero: We have a lot of support from them also. >> Carla Hayden: I know you do but what can we do to engage seniors? And as I'm mature, that becomes a particular interest as well. >> David Ferriero: We do have -- it's been interesting to watch this transcription project because there are a number of senior centers and nursing homes. ^M00:42:05 There's a nursing home in Lynn, Massachusetts who has adopted us and is doing transcriptions. >> Carla Hayden: Yes. >> David Ferriero: Which I think is wonderful. >> Carla Hayden: And see that's in terms of retired professors and people that want to keep engaged. >> David Ferriero: Yeah. >> Carla Hayden: And because you can do it remotely that with limited mobility with a lot of seniors. This is a way that they can keep involved and keep that but we're going to have -- I won't even -- well I can -- >> David Ferriero: What are you doing? >> Carla Hayden: About cooking to -- >> David Ferriero: Macaroni and cheese. >> Carla Hayden: Stay tuned. >> David Ferriero: Probably. >> Carla Hayden: Stay tuned. The Library of Congress has one of the world's largest collections of historical cookbooks. So imagine what programming you could do with that. >> David Ferriero: Amazing. >> Carla Hayden: Not going to say anything because he'll steal it because he probably has the patent to whatever the mixer [laughter] or something like that. You do. You do. >> David Ferriero: Well before your time we had a blockbuster exhibit called What's Cooking Uncle Sam about the government's role in food which told the story -- a horrible story about testing preservatives and the changes of the food groups over time. Did you know butter used to be a food group? Butter. >> Carla Hayden: I still think it is. ^M00:43:25 [ Laughter ] ^M00:43:27 Yeah I'm for that. Yeah. Well the -- and I have to talk about your shop. You just renovated and you have a new education center and your shop is to die for. >> David Ferriero: Yeah, I know. I heard you were trying to steal my shop manager. >> Carla Hayden: I was scouting. You know? We're renovating our shop. We're renovating our shop. I had to do a field trip and I did talk to the nice lady. She seems moderately happy. ^M00:44:02 [ Laughter ] ^M00:44:07 I mean she did your shop. She's ready for a new challenge. >> David Ferriero: We stole her. You know we stole her from the zoo. ^M00:44:14 [ Laughter ] ^M00:44:17 >> Carla Hayden: I'm not saying a word with that one. I'm letting that go. >> David Ferriero: In her first year, she introduced socks into the repertoire and $100,000 worth of socks in the first year. >> Carla Hayden: That's right. >> David Ferriero: Your shop -- the really cool thing about the Archives and the shop is that when you're in a section and they have sections that are just wonderful about subjects and eras, the World War II, and all of this. There are the terminals right there that connect you to the collections and what else you can do. So right when you're making that decision about purchasing, you also are being tied to the Archives and that. And that's what really makes it not just a retail experience. Those are great but the tie in to the content of the Archives is what really got it. >> David Ferriero: So then if you've never been to the National Archives, there are two entrances. One on Pennsylvania Avenue and one on Constitution Avenue. The Constitution side is if you want to come in and see the charters and the exhibits and the museum side of the house. And the other side is for research. You come in that door to use the collection to do research. And I've been -- since I got there trying to figure out ways to break that wall. Break a hole through that wall so that there's more interaction on both sides so that you get a taste on the museum side about what's possible. Genealogists -- genealogy is our biggest market. Most -- [cheering] -- genealogists than anything else. Genealogists then Veterans and then everything else after that but some way to use the experience -- immediate experience from the museum on the other side in the research. On the research side to get people more interested and excited about not just genealogy but our records in general. Learning more about our history and more -- most important, learning about civics and how the government works. >> Carla Hayden: Yes. >> David Ferriero: And what the three branches of government are and what their responsibilities are as American citizens. That's what -- >> Carla Hayden: Right. >> David Ferriero: -- I'm trying to figure out. >> Carla Hayden: [Clapping] Well we all are. ^M00:46:43 >> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress. Visit us at loc.gov. ^E00:46:50