>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, DC. ^M00:00:04 ^M00:00:16 >> Stephen Winick: Hello, I'm Steven Winnick. This is the Library of Congress, and I'm here with a group called Newpoli, who perform music from Southern Italy. I am the writer and editor in the American Folklife Center of the Library of Congress and I'm trained as a folklorist. And we just presented Newpoli in concert in our Homegrown Concert Series. So these are three members of the group Newpoli, and I'm going to ask each of you to say your name. >> Carmen Marsico: My name is Carmen Marsico. >> Angela Rossi: And my name is Angela Rossi. >> Bjorn Wennas: My name is Bjorn Wennas. >> Stephen Winick: And these are, as I said, three members of the group Newpoli who perform music from Southern Italy. So let's begin with the question, how many members of the band are actually from Southern Italy? >> Carmen Marsico: Three members actually, yes. Three members are from the South in different parts. One is me and I'm from Basilicata. My family is from Basilicata. >> Angela Rossi: And then I am from Naples, like my family is from Naples. And then there's Fabio Pirozzolo. >> Carmen Marsico: There's Fabio-- Yeah, there is also from the lowest part of Lazio, which is Southern pat of Rome. So Terracina is actually the name of his town. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hmm. And that-- >> Bjorn Wennas: Maybe we should give a shout out to Dan, our band-- >> Angela Rossi: That's right. >> Carmen Marsico: OK. Yeah, that's true. >> Bjorn Wennas: Because this [inaudible] we come up here. >> Carmen Marsico: Yes. >> Stephen Winick: All right, excellent, yeah. >> Angela Rossi: And as we-- And as I always like to joke about it. He's from Northern Italy as you can tell. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah, that's right. >> Bjorn Wennas: The very north of Italy. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Angela Rossi: Region called Sweden [laughter]. >> Stephen Winick: Right. And so, other members of the group are from other places, some American and some from Europe. >> Carmen Marsico: Yes, yeah. Correct. >> Stephen Winick: And so, how did you come together as a group around Italian music? >> Angela Rossi: That's in [foreign language]. >> Carmen Marsico: Yes. >> Angela Rossi: So we-- well, we have had, you know, changing personnel in the group over-- throughout the years. But we met at Berklee College of Music where we were all studying really modern music, jazz specifically, blues and other styles. And one day, we were-- we all met at the library at Berklee and we noticed that there was a wonderful international folk festival. They were helding it at the Berklee Performance Center, which is a really nice room at Berklee. And we noticed that Italy wasn't represented, so we-- our pride came out, you know. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah, actually haven't been represented almost ever, only once they did it but they-- it was done by Italian-Americans, and they did not play a folk music. They play, you know, more like the Jazz Italian. >> Angela Rossi: Right. >> Carmen Marsico: And so we thought, well, we need to do it. >> Angela Rossi: Yes, to bring, you know, the real authentic music. And since, you know, Carmen and I were both from the South of Italy and we were exposed since we were really young to these styles, we just said, oh, we can, you know-- we weren't doing it as a, you know, before then as a professional or anything, but we said, well, we should try to prepare some music and we submitted it, see what was there. And we-- you know, they selected us and so we performed, and we really enjoyed it and we decided to make it something more serious and start a research at that point, you know, to widen the repertoire and such. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hmm. That's a great story. But it also touches on something interesting which is that in the US, you have movements around certain ethnic folk music like Irish music and things like that. But Italian music doesn't seem to be as well represented even though there are so many Italian-Americans. >> Angela Rossi: It's true. >> Stephen Winick: Have you gotten a sense of why that is through your-- >> Angela Rossi: I have an opinion. I don't know if I have a sense but I have an opinion. I think that that some older generations, I think now is a little bit better, we are progressing. But in the first immigration especially, people were really-- Italian immigrants were very afraid of not integrating properly with the culture, with the American culture especially their kids, their children. Sometimes they wouldn't even teach them Italian. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. >> Angela Rossi So I think it might have something to do with that. >> Carmen Marsico: I think they were a little bit ashamed. I mean, they kind of repressed the-- >> Bjorn Wenna: There was a lot of racists towards Italians-- >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah, exactly. Because they couldn't really speak well English, so they kind of erased a little bit-- >> Bjorn Wennas: I think your opinion is probably correct. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Angela Rossi: Yeah. And now-- you know, though, there is a really nice-- we're so glad because I feel like the newer generations, you know, that are coming, the new immigrations so to speak, they're more interested in keeping the traditional life, so. >> Carmen Marsico: What I actually noticed that even Italian-American are-- I'm receiving more like people, oh, this is amazing, I want to research more about my roots. So now-- I mean, now, it's been probably five years or so that Italian-American are more interested in rediscovering their roots. >> Stephen Winick: Interesting. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: So, your immigrant experience was coming here to be musicians. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: And you kind of shifted the type of music that you play though. So what was that like coming to the United States to work as musicians or to learn as musicians? >> Carmen Marsico: Well, I mean I guess we were a little bit lucky because we studied-- all three of us studied at Berklee where there was so much diversity. So it was fantastic actually, it was really wonderful to hear different cultures and explore different sounds and, you know, become richer and richer as a musician because you could really absorb all those influences. I really enjoyed-- I still enjoy it actually, now-- even now, yeah. >> Stephen Winick: And you want-- yeah. >> Bjorn Wennas: I agree with what she said. No, I would say that one thing that I think that everybody that studied at Berklee experience was that a lot of teachers there, they want you to go and look in your roots and, you know, see what you can bring. So I think that, you know, that-- maybe like the shift towards-- for them, shifts towards playing folk music from back home was maybe not that big of a shift, you know, that's the-- >> Angela Rossi: It wasn't that far fetch. It's true. Because what you do is you're integrating-- those are-- yeah, relate to that because you're integrated, you're studying the American styles of singing and playing and-- but you're exposed to so much, different-- so many different things. And then what happens is that you start sort of going back to what can I contribute? What's my unique voice? And I think partly is that you are so far removed from your origins that you really can look with a sort of a more like a neutral and see that that's very special, you know. When you're there, maybe you don't appreciate it as much. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah, right. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: So When you were there, were you mostly interested in American musical styles? Is that what-- >> Angela Rossi: I would say-- I mean, I'm-- first of all, we all have our own-- >> Stephen Winick: Sure, yeah. >> Angela Rossi: -- you know, obviously. So I was-- I really was drawn to jazz primarily and blues and some of the, you know, the good rock, British rock and roll. And I've-- yeah, I'm not ashamed of it, you know, like I'm American-- >> Bjorn Wennas: I was going to say it, say it like you also like Metallica. >> Angela Rossi: I love Metallica. I love Metallica, but I was trained-- classically trained. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Angela Rossi: And even, you know-- And so it's, yeah, it's sort of interesting background. A lot of Europeans have this, by the way, you know, this exposure to all these, they seem so opposite in a way but they're not, you know, it's all music. And so, that's kind of where my influence is where if you can see that, you know, at first. And then I kind of went towards where music more-- and then more and more as I was, you know, exploring things. >> Stephen Winick: Right. Was that true for you as well, Carmen? >> Carmen Marsico: I mean, I-- as-- I mean I actually started within-- I was kind of trained classically for a little bit, but I kind of like the R&B the, the American R&B. And then I started being interested in jazz because I am at this jazz British-Egyptian singer that played with this [inaudible] for a little bit. They actually think they were lovers, but-- and then it was-- I was-- I fell in love, I couldn't stop, but I have to say, when-- at that time, she was the one that maybe stared make me think a little bit because she decided to record this famous song, "A Night in Tunisia" in Egyptian instead of English. And I was like, woah, and then the whole-- it wasn't really, you know, swing, it was done with this really amazing African rhythm. And I was like so absorbed by that, it was like I really like that. ^M00:10:00 And then the next kind of step it was to discover Shubin. For me, it was a big discovery because I couldn't stop listening to them. I felt that, that type of music was little closer to how I felt music compared to just to swing, more natural for me. So, yeah, and then little by little, you know, when you start exploiting the Brazilians style then the Latin style, the Cuban and then you get to the Africa. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Carmen Marsico: It was kind of like going back to the roots like that. >> Bjorn Wennas: Fabio, though, they [inaudible]. He did play folk music in Italy. >> Angela Rossi: Right. He really professionally-- the tambourine-- >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. >> Angela Rossi: -- in Italy in several traditional groups before he came to Boston where he also studied, you know, modern styles and jazz and-- >> Carmen Marsico: Yes, and jazz. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. Mm-hmm. And Bjorn-- >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah, what about you? >> Stephen Winick: -- what was your musical background? >> Bjorn Wennas: My musical background is classical guitar, that's how I started. Then I quickly shifted to a lot of metal. So, several hardcore groups that I played in back home and more groups. But at some point, I started playing jazz, that's how I got over to Berklee College of Music and then I met this wonderful lady. >> Carmen Marsico: Well, I want to say something about Bjorn, the-- he always forgot to say. When we-- yeah-- >> Bjorn Wennas: We're married, you can tell her. >> Angela Rossi: There you go. There you go. >> Carmen Marsico: When we were looking for a guitar player, we first asked this Italian guy, that was a jazz player and he said, this is not what I really do, and then we-- we're already dating and he had play for me this amazing Swedish folk group and I was like, wow, so things are similar to what-- how we embellished music. And so, when Angela and I asked him and he said, oh, yeah, I'd love to. And then-- I mean he had this, I don't know, new eyes to look at the stuff and but at the same time he have in his mind even though he doesn't say, but he-- I mean Swedish like culture like their folk, traditional is so strong. >> Angela Rossi: Yes. >> Carmen Marsico: Even if they don't maybe, you know, think so but it's still part of them the way they are. >> Angela Rossi: The strings and the-- >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. >> Angela Rossi: -- the value of singing is very strong-- >> Carmen Marsico: So, he never had the problem to understand like the grooves or like you know-- >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. Pretty much all the arrangements and most of the original music that we play, I did. The Swedish eyes-- >> Carmen Marsico: He had the right sensitivity. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. So who was this Swedish group that you talk about? >> Bjorn Wennas: Oh, Frifot. >> Stephen Winick: Oh, Frifot. Yeah. Yeah. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. >> Angela Rossi: You know them? >> Stephen Winick: I do. Yeah. Yeah. >> Carmen Marsico: Unbelievable. Yeah. >> Angela Rossi: And you know, I just-- it's interesting. I just-- I was just thinking how all of us kind of came-- we really came from studying jazz. What happens is it's such a free music, it's so free and the-- I think the improvisational element is a thing that makes you discover other-- >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Angela Rossi: -- interesting aspects of the music and also yeah, like she was saying jazz had different components. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. >> Angela Rossi: You know, jazz is like general word but this-- the Latin, the Cuban, so you realize that what is his is really-- the world of music-- the music of the world-- >> Carmen Marsico: It's a lot of folk. >> Angela Rossi: -- flows into it, so yeah, there's a lot of folk in it, basically, so. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. But another influence that people might hear in Newpoli and you'll tell me if it's really there or if it's just a coincidence, is there really music? >> Angela Rossi: Yes. >> Bjorn Wennas: Oh no. For sure. >> Angela Rossi: Yes. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. So, how did that get integrated into? >> Bjorn Wennas: Well, I mean like when you listen to folk music in Italy, they are still using a lot of the same instruments. And I think that, you know, the crossover between the early music and the folk tradition there, it's not a big step. Two of our musicians in the group, Dan and Karen, they are flute player and the violin is there. They're actually educated early musicians. And I think that one of the big reasons of why we pull them into the band was two CDs ago, we did a CD called Tempo Antico where we did a lot of renaissance music but in a more of a street folk way. And yeah. >> Carmen Marsico: Well-- >> Angela Rossi: The-- yeah, go ahead. >> Carmen Marsico: I actually want to say something about this. Yeah. Because the thing is that in Naples in the renaissance time, they-- of course, there was the educator early music and not educator early music. And so there's a bit, you know, like discussion groups to talk about. The fact that the same composer, maybe, perform the song in a certain way at the court and then instead on the street, he would do it with the folk musician, you know, more like completely a little rough and a little more edgy. And I mean they don't know exactly, of course, like-- but there's one specific style that we did record in Tempo Antico is the Villanella alla Napolitana. >> Angela Rossi: Right. Right. >> Carmen Marsico: And that was what we-- When we did that we said, OK. We want to present this way, because we, you know, we are kind of thinking that probably on the street, they were playing the song like this. But you know, in front of the King, it was more refined. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Angela Rossi: Right. Moresca as well. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Angela Rossi: The moresca is another style, carnivalistic style. And many sounds are involved, you know, the-- and that was-- our take was because we heard a lot of those-- of this music, this material performed classically really perfectly with no-- >> Carmen Marsico: I think there was also couple-- >> Angela Rossi: -- edge, not a lot of-- yeah. >> Carmen Marsico: -- a couple of groups that try to do it in the-- >> Angela Rossi: Right, in the younger way. >> Carmen Marsico: -- in this foreign way, so. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hmm. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yup. >> Carmen Marsico: And-- ^M00:16:34 [ Foreign Language ] ^M00:16:36 Exactly. >> Angela Rossi: That was really almost like the other-- the other way because they-- >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah, no, they play, yeah. >> Angela Rossi: -- they really even introduce the [inaudible]. I don't know if you're familiar with them. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah, I've heard of them. Yeah. >> Angela Rossi: So they introduce some even electric instruments. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. >> Angela Rossi: And you know, they definitely had a different take on more folk and more edgy. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. They were definitely a big influence when we started doing this music. Absolutely. >> Stephen Winick: Well-- So then another group that I was familiar with growing up because they're from New York City was the group called I Giullari di Piazza. And I understand that you've interacted with them a little bit as well. >> Bjorn Wennas: Well not with the group per se but with the guitarist, John LaBarbera, he's a good friend of ours and he actually played on two of our albums, sorry. And he was definitely one person that I went to to learn from and when it came to playing the chitarra battente, which he is a real master on. And yeah but that's pretty much the extent of our collaboration but John definitely taught us a lot and was just always supportive of the band. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: Great. >> Carmen Marsico: A lot interesting stories. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Bjorn Wennas: Oh my God. He has some interesting stories. >> Angela Rossi: All right. >> Bjorn Wennas:Get a ball and a wine and that guy-- Stephen Winick: Right. >> Angela Rossi: He's-- yeah, he's traveled a lot and-- >>: Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. He was part of the awakening of the folk music in the Southern Italian folk music in the '70s in Italy and collaborated with a lot of those people there. And so-- playing with him was kind of like I'm playing jazz and I'm playing with Charlie Parker. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Bjorn Wennas: You know. Yup. >> Stephen Winick: Right. Well, what are things that they had observed that group and John in particular was that because Italy was so important in the development of classical music, Italian folk styles and the early music actually had organic similarities, is that something that you've worked with as well? >> Bjorn Wennas: Well, maybe in the like when we did Tempo Antico, I think that we were thinking about that a lot. So, that was the album that we use a lot of renaissance music and try to re-imagine it in a more folk way. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Bjorn Wennas: But I think from our previous in CD in Nun Te Vuta and with the CD that we recorded now, we really wanted to turn it completely different page and write more of our own music and in the style. And also we wanted to look at the entire area of the-- that surrounding Italy and think about what kind of influences may or may not have come in that influence the folk music there. And we wanted to like shine a light on, say particularly like recruit them or a particular scale that, you know, we could trace back to something and, you know, re-imagine the folk music from those perspectives. ^M00:20:08 >> Carmen Marsico: Besides also using the film recording. >> Angela Rossi: Right. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hmm. >> Carmen Marsico: As I-- well, some film recordings are more like, OK, you listen and it's like it's a song, it's there and you can take it and maybe, you know, decide to do an introduction and some sections in a certain way, but others are really there like those like-- I don't know-- or yeah, a woman singing in the >> Stephen Winick: Yeah, yeah. >> Carmen Marsico: -- the beginning of the songs is like, oh cool and then she goes-- >> Angela Rossi: Out of tune. >> Carmen Marsico: -- completely out, and you're like, oh-- >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah, it's-- >> Carmen Marsico: -- maybe she didn't really want to do that, so you have to imagine. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hmm. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. >> Carmen Marsico: But still there's material that you can use. And one of the song that we performed before during the concert, then the flute player was talking about, it's a chant that has different variation, different, I guess, way to sing. It's really long too, we didn't do the whole thing, it's a little too long. And-- but it's the-- we collected this version close to Matera in Basilicata because of the time we thought, oh we like this and it's close to where-- how we feel it, but then I-- later on, even discover the same chant-- like you could find a little more in the center of Italy. >> Angela Rossi: Let's the name of the-- >> Carmen Marsico: It's called fronidaliya [phonetic], which means olive branches, olive branches. >> Angela Rossi: Yeah. >> Carmen Marsico: And it sang with a slightly different dialect because, of course, the dialect there is different. So I don't know it's like it's Bjorn said, we discover like this group from Greece or like-- but also I think the film recordings are like such a treasure. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hmm. >> Carmen Marsico: So sometimes by listening to one of those things, we're like, we could do this with this. >> Stephen Winick: So where you do find the field recordings for Southern Italy that you've used? >> Carmen Marsico: So I started researching online because being here I couldn't go deeply in, you know, the library, but we have the archival of Santa Cecilia in Rome that has all those recordings collected there. And some professor that teaches at different universities have done like put together like a book for-- by the region. And so I bought the Basilicata book even that Puglia, I think about Calabria too. Yeah. And I mean the Basilicata was very dear to me because it's my region. And actually they say that that was the first expedition, expedition like going to Africa, done, you need to be, and it was done in 1952 by Diego Carpitella and Ernesto De Martino in the South of Italy. And they specifically went to Basilicata because at that time was the most isolated region and so they thought that they would have been really untouched and so like, you know, they were really eager to record whatever was there. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hmm. >> Angela Rossi: And partly-- you know, particularly it is true, you feel that way when you hear those recordings because I wasn't-- you know, I think that my tradition was Neapolitan and actually Carmen too, but she was part-- she heard this music. But, at first, I feel like you were exposed also to mostly Neapolitan music. >> Carmen Marsico: Mostly Neapolitan. >> Angela Rossi: Because it's the more famous one, right? Even the [inaudible] in Neapolitan. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. That was a big tradition in my family like yours. >> Angela Rossi: But when she played this, you know, recordings for me, I just-- oh it really sounded like something that had the elements of Greece, of, you know, some Arabic Middle East and elements and the melodies and-- >> Carmen Marsico: Well, a lot with that actually. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah, yeah. And there was [inaudible]. Angela Rossi: Even, even-- Right, just vocal technique that is completely different, you know, with-- we don't want to go too specifically, but, you know, thrills that only happen in that region, specifically in that region. >> Stephen Winick: Right, right. Interesting. >> Angela Rossi: And that was amazing, you know. >> Carmen Marsico: Yes, it was really interesting. Yes. >> Stephen Winick: So I want to invite you because as you know Diego Carpitella just soon after that collaborated with Alan Lomax and did other trips throughout Italy. And we have those field recordings here at the Library of Congress. So we're going to invite you back anytime you want to come. >> Angela Rossi: We can't wait. >> Stephen Winick: And we'll show you those and we'll listen to some more of the same kind of recordings. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. So those are, those are great. So, let's talk a little bit about the instruments in the group because some of them will be instruments that, you know, our audiences might not be that familiar with, so. >> Carmen Marsico: Mm-hmm. >> Stephen Winick: What about the bagpipes, Italian bagpipes? >> Bjorn Wennas: Oh yeah. >> Angela Rossi: Zampogna. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. It's actually going to-- I didn't know this until I went down to Southern Italy. It is huge tradition down there with the bagpipes. And I don't think that a lot of people are aware of it. >> Carmen Marsico: Mm-hmm. >> Bjorn Wennas: But it's funny because they basically turn-- they basically turn it inside out. >> Stephen Winick: Yes. >> Bjorn Wennas: And make some reads on it and then play it. >> Stephen Winick: When you say it's a huge tradition, it makes me laugh because some of the bagpipes were so big. >> Bjorn Wennas: I know again. Yeah, they're-- >> Stephen Winick: That it looks like you're dancing with another person. >> Bjorn Wennas: -- they're amazing. >> Angela Rossi: Yeah. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. The first time I've really strongly experience is what we were in Naples, Carmen and I for Christmas and it is-- and particularly in Christmas time, the shepherds-- well, nowadays is just bagpipe play which-- >> Stephen Winick: Yeah >> Bjorn Wennas: -- but they come down dressed as shepherds and they play all these pastoralis [phonetic] on the streets of Naples. So, it was funny, you walk around and you see-- you pass a Gucci store and next to it is a guy with his bagpipe. >> Carmen Marsico: And usually the tradition is the bagpiper is going to play with the another musician that plays charamela, which is the-- our [inaudible] version. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Carmen Marsico: So they always go in pairs like that. >> Stephen Winick: So it's a double reed mouth blown double reed. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah, yeah. >> Angela Rossi: Right. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. >> Angela Rossi: Then-- >> Carmen Marsico: And then plays both of them. Yeah. And actually the charamela comes from Napoli, Naples. And the bagpipe comes from, well-- ^M00:26:48 [ Inaudible ] ^M00:26:49 From Alfonso Toscano, the leaves-- >> Stephen Winick: Oh, oh, you're speaking about his instrument, yeah. >> Angela Rossi: The Zamponia itself was an instruement-- >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah, it's been made by [inaudible] in Italy, though, yes. >> Angela Rossi: Part of the same, you know, era and they do-- the two, you know, musicians, they go-- in Christmas time, some hire them to go to their apartment to play the novena so to play this traditional Christmas music. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Angela Rossi: And it's still happening, the Christmas very, very early. >> Carmen Marsico: Well you should talk about your-- ^M00:27:25 [ Multiple Speakers ] ^M00:27:26 -- That's a very important instrument. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yes. So I play a particular guitar called a chitarra battente. And I was mentioning John LaBarbera before. He was definitely a person that help me develop playing that. And so, it's-- it is basically a baroque guitar but with steel strings and medal frets. And in the west, baroque guitar has gut strings and gut frets. But other than that, it is very much the same. And it has something called re-entrant tuning. So as you drag your finger across the strings, this got di-da-da and then it jumps up and octave again, ba-ba, which is-- but it's the same strings as you play a guitar which is very confusing that all of a sudden you would jump up an octave. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Bjorn Wennas: Anyway, I learned a bunch of different techniques both from John and from another chitarra battente player in Italy. And it is a particularly an instrument that you find in Calabria and in Gargano and Puglia and in Salento and Campania. So those are the-- I would say probably these areas that has the strongest tradition. So it's very much an instrument that's remain from history, you know, up to now. >> Stephen Winick: It's really interesting because it gives it some of the early music feel and yet it's a surviving aspect of folk tradition that a lot of people just don't know about. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. It's-- Outside of Italy here in America. I don't know how many place-- me and John and maybe-- >> Angela Rossi: And probably you two, yes. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. I would say it's probably a few other people that maybe doesn't, but I think him and I, we all know once they do it professionally. >> Stephen Winick: Right, interesting. And then there's-- you-- there's another guitar player in the group. So let's talk about Yusy's [assumed spelling]. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. So, Yusy he plays a mandola, beautiful mandola actually that I snapped up in Napoli from 1960. And he plays-- >> Carmen Marsico: The oud. >>Bjorn Wennas: -- the oud and classical guitar. We both play classical guitar and mandola. The mandola and the chitarra battente, they complement each other very much like in the sound in both double strings and-- but he has a little bit more body to it, which is nice. ^M00:30:01 When he plays lines, I play arpggiated park or strumming. But the oud, I think that was one of the things when we-- when he was starting in a band, that we really want to bring in his knowledge of music from the middle east and the language that he spoke because we-- as I was mentioning before when we're looking at the music from the southern Italy, we saw all these influences and there was definitely one influence that we wanted to enhance and-- >> Carmen Marsico: Make people aware of it. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. >> Angela Rossi: Make it shine in the music. And it's funny because Yusy always-- when I remember when we re talking to him about it, he said, well, let's be careful because I don't want to look like I'm appropriate in anything from the Arab world and I'm just trying to make my contribution with-- I think we loved him just for that, just for that, you know, approach of respect because that's what we always try to grab, you know, towards the music. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Bjorn Wennas: Other than that, I think you almost-- all the instruments are-- instruments that you find and people know about the violin, et cetera, the bass-- >> Carmen Marsico: The recorders, right, in the room. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. But the-- But I guess the most particular part in the music is the-- what Fabio play is the different tamburellos. And I don't know who it was that said that, it's very much the heartbeat of the music. And you want to hear that boom, boom, boom. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. It gets you going, lots of triplets >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. And he has several different ones for different-- >> Bjorn Wennas: Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah-- well-- >> Angela Rossi: It's a selection, yeah. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah, I was going to say like yeah, you saw three here tonight, yes, I don't know. >> Angela Rossi: Right. >> Bjorn Wennas: His girlfriend is crying. >> Angela Rossi: And, you know, if he sees-- if you make him sit down sometimes and talk about the-- his instruments and the tradition of the instruments, it's pretty amazing. He was-- we were giving a lecture recently in Arkansas and he-- you know, they both talked about the instruments. And I learn things that I totally didn't know about the frame, drums, the tambourines of Italy. And one major difference for example is there is a big tambourine that's called a tammora that is used to play a certain style of music in Naples, the tammurriata. And then other different tambourine, different sizes are from different regions and so areas-- >> Bjorn Wennas: Specialized, so different techniques. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. Like from Calabria, they have one in Apulia, in Salento they have another-- >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. Obviously all of them and things-- >> Angela Rossi: And different claves, you know, different claves for different styles, but today we kind of-- we play different-- there was a Calabrian rhythm, which is a certain Calabrian rhythm within. >> Bjorn Wennas: Oh I can say that Calabrian sparka, spaka napoly, napoly sparka, [clapping] sparka napoly napoly sparka, sparka napoly napoly naploy napoly napoly napoly. >> Stephen Winick: There you go. Excellent. Yeah. Great. So let's talk a little bit about arranging. So you've got all these great instruments, how do you decided what's going to be on [inaudible]. >> Bjorn Wennas: Well-- oh, how do I decide? I don't know. >> Carmen Marsico: Well, you hear it. >> Bjorn Wennas: Well, yeah, but I would say-- thank you. I would say I hear it quite often. The-- for example like when we do new songs, songs that I've written, right, then is-- I write very much, try to write very much to everybody's strength as a player. And-- But if we, for example, like if we pick up on a field recording and I have a skeleton basically, sometimes a broken skeleton, you have to mend it back together. It was like did she mean to sing that? It's just supposed to be my tone in there, or she's out of tune, you know-- >> Angela Rossi: What kind of harmony do you put under there. >> Bjorn Wennas: Right. So, I would say like a lot of times I start out with a rhythm and from the rhythm, I get the idea of the where we want to take it. I mean like sometimes maybe we hear it immediately like-- but if I don't hear it immediately I would say like you often start with some kind of rhythm and I get the feeling for what kind of direction I want to go in. >> Carmen Marsico: Well, for example if you think of-- I mean, the first tarantella would be today [inaudible]. When we heard the field recording for that, there was a clapping going on in the background and it's tambourine, I think, was there or maybe not. >> Bjorn Wennas: No there was only-- >> Carmen Marsico: No, only voice and the clapping. >> Bjorn Wennas: Only voice and clapping. >> Carmen Marsico: So-- and you said, OK, their clapping has to stay. We need to keep it, that's very cool. And then because of tarantella, it's not a tarantella if you don't have a tambourine and we needed to have that. And then we thought, well, let's do this slightly different, let's do just chitarra battente, that goes together with a groove and the clapping and the tambourine. And that's how it works. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Bjorn Wennas: Oh, oh, oh, I have to say something as an arrangement, and I would say that probably other people that arranges this music contemporary like, for example, there's another group in Apulia [inaudible], and they arrange their [inaudible]. So quite often, this music did the traditional tarantellas. We have two chords. Right? We have a one chord, we have a five chord. Let's play that for five minutes now like-- and you have-- as an arranger, you have to do something with that, so I have invented all kind of ways that you can possibly re-imagine these two chords turn them inside out creating baselines using the parallel minors, the-- >> Carmen Marsico: And then I mean-- >> Bjorn Wennas: -- anything that [inaudible]. >> Angela Rossi: Sometimes there is sneaks in, maybe a little something different, right, not always. >> Bjorn Wennas: But, you know-- not always but quite often. And you just have to think about like what can I do with this, you know. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Angela Rossi: And also another thing that I notice, not always because sometimes like the arrangements are perfect and pristine. >> Bjorn Wennas: Thank you. >> Angela Rossi: But I think sometimes it's great when they're not because we-- then when we get to play, then it's-- >> Carmen Marsico: We get more ideas. >> Angela Rossi: -- We get more ideas, we get some ideas and, you know, he's thinking, oh perhaps, you know, if you play this an octave higher, it's going to give a different effect. Perhaps, you know, if in certain instruments, you know, you get to see the potential of their instrument that maybe you didn't know about. And I think that's a really fun aspect of it. When we come up with breaks and all the sound, this would be a really good break or-- >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah, absolutely. They are not untouchable to my arrangements. >> Stephen Winick: But it's interesting because it shows how your musical training is interacting with this tradition. So if you're inside the tradition, those limits are there but you don't recognize them as limits that you can break or that you can play with. But if you come from outside and have this musical training, you can-- you recognize the limits for what they are and say, well, OK, so how are we going to deal with this one part? >> Bjorn Wennas: Yes. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. So it's really interesting to hear you talk about that. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: So great. So, yeah, so one thing that we didn't mention that when we were talking about instruments is it might be interesting to people that you include an electric base in the group. What was the reason behind that or the-- or how do you use it. >> Bjorn Wennas: Well, the reason for-- I mean that we're not going to take the credit for that because there are a lot of bands in Italy who does that. >> Angela Rossi: We heard-- >> Stephen Winick: Yeah, yeah. >> Bjorn Wennas: No, no, absolutely. And I think that we all wanted, we all wanted to have like a slightly more modern sound of-- you know, we can-- we-- I mean quite often we played clubs, and, you know, you want to have the power on-- >> Angela Rossi: Also outdoor festivals. For example in Italy or Chicago, it's nice-- >> Bjorn Wennas: You need the bottom. >> Angela Rossi: -- Right. You need the bottom sound and I feel like sometimes it's a bridge to connect also to a younger audience that connects to the element that now is so popular, you know. And-- >> Carmen Marsico: I mean, yeah, it really-- I mean in reality, we have to face the fact that we are in 2018. And like some stages if you don't have that low end, you're really going to lose. >> Angela Rossi: You disappear. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah, a little bit. But then other times, we found ourselves like in Kansas City in the room-- >> Angela Rossi: In the room. >> Carmen Marsico: -- yeah. Well, we-- Jeff with bass was there too with a small theme, but having just a little bit yeah, or sometimes we play-- something, this little place in Boston, and it's a book store and that we kept it really acoustically, acoustic because I mean it would be an overpower in the rooms, so I guess that it's-- you know, we needed that to make it as we said more modern and-- ^M00:40:00 >> Stephen Winick: So I should mention that I first met the band in Kansas City in a very small hotel room at the Folk Alliance conference. So that's what was being alluded to their-- >> Bjorn Wennas: One-thirty in the morning. >> Stephen Winick: That's right. And they were playing a set for, you know, a few of us, there were-- there was-- it was pretty full actually. >> Angela Rossi: I was surprised. >> Carmen Marsico: It feels like a blur in. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Angela Rossi: I was very surprised because there's so many people just-- >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. I don't remember at all. >> Angela Rossi: -- at 2 o'clock in the morning. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. But-- >> Bjorn Wennas: We played one, even later, we played one, I think at like about 2:30. >> Carmen Marsico: Three. >> Bjorn Wennas: Three-- >> Carmen Marsico: Something like that. >> Bjorn Wennas: -- 3 a.m. Yeah. And we were like-- >> Carmen Marsico: And still people-- >> Bjorn Wennas: And we were like no one is going to come. And then like-- by the end, it was like the room was packed. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. So the Folk Alliance International is an organization that promotes folk music and they have these showcases every year. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: And this is-- you guys showcase this past year. Had you been to a Folk Alliance? >> Angela Rossi: No. >> Bjorn Wennas: No. That was first time, I think. >> Stephen Winick: What was your impression on that? >> Bjorn Wennas: That was shock. >> Angela Rossi: It was so much fun though. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah, yeah. We have so much fun. It's-- It was amazing. We plan to go back again this year. >> Angela Rossi: Which will be in Canada, if I'm not-- >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. ^M00:41:12 [ Inaudible ] ^M00:41:13 Yeah, yeah. And that brings up another one more question which is you'd mentioned playing in Italy at festivals and playing here. Do you perceive a difference between playing in Italy versus playing for American audiences? >> Angela Rossi: Yeah. A little bit. I do. I do it a little bit. You do fear that that's where the tradition belongs definitely. I've-- When you-- But it's just the way that they all grew up with the music and/or it was just taught to them especially the dance because the element of the dance is very tight to some of these music that we play. And so that's the first thing you see people-- young people in Italy just-- >> Carmen Marsico: Going crazy. >> Angela Rossi: -- dancing like the traditional dance and-- but really-- >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah, yeah. >> Angela Rossi: -- with a lot of passion and knowledge, really, you know, the-- >> Carmen Marsico: Sometimes they, you know-- Well, we played in the very south, but we play more in the center where the tradition wasn't really the same than they had, but because anyway they are exposed, they could dance and know what to do. Sometimes maybe they don't but they dance anyway. So, yeah, it's-- I actually lately even here, I've noticed that more people are aware of like only where they let it be. >> Angela Rossi: They connect more without-- yeah, it's true, over the years-- >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. >> Angela Rossi: I agree. I always saw a difference in welcoming a style that they're not used to and just let themselves go and hear it and maybe even dance, you know, maybe even-- >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. They just do their own thing. That's what we usually say because sometimes we have the chance to teach some of the dances, sometimes there's no chances and we say just feel free to dance, you know, as you wish. It's not like the ballet, so you can really improvise. Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: So one last thing. I know that you've recorded four CDs, I think, and you-- actually you're working on the fifth. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: The first three were mostly traditional music of various times and now you've moved into a process where you write a fair amount of the songs. So you're doing essentially original music in the styles. How is the experience different of doing your own songs and the styles that you became accustomed to as traditional? >> Bjorn Wennas: Its fun. >> Angela Rossi: Its really fun. >> Bjorn Wennas: Yes. >> Carmen Marsico: It's-- >> Angela Rossi: Yeah. >> Carmen Marsico: It's been fun also like because we want to still write in the dialects. So, the previous city, we wrote a pizzica. And so I studied a little bit this pizzica and just standing like how do they-- and try to think about rhythm. And then we pick the theme and I wrote it in some kind of dialect that I-- by singing, you hear and then you sort of like kind of guessing what the word it will be because it wasn't-- that I was-- I mean acquainted-- >> Angela Rossi: It's not who we are, right. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. It was from-- so far like Tejano. Actually, no, wait, I thought of like doing it there from Salento, which is the area, the southern part of Apulia. And there are many dialects there. And I knew a friend that was from there, and then I said, so I'm going to write it, but then you have to correct it. And, you know, correct it in your dialect and then we'll keep it like that. So I did it and I found their dictionary, try to-- because the metric was very important. So I couldn't, you know-- And so then I send it to him and he said, oh, maybe this one is-- So it was a little collaborate, it was fantastic. We did that. Then we did it with Neapolitan and for Neapolitan, it was much easier because she knows it very well. I'm more-- definitely know a little bit more. >> Angela Rossi: And we have our mamas. >> Carmen Marsico: Well, your dad at that time-- >> Angela Rossi: My dad. >> Carmen Marsico: -- and then your mom. >> Angela Rossi: Yeah. >> Carmen Marsico: And then we started writing also in the dialect of my parents. And then it was like collaboration between me and my mom. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Carmen Marsico: Like, so what-- and then my mom would call her sister, it's like, so maybe we should say like that. >> Angela Rossi: And then friends. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah, yeah. >> Angela Rossi: It's like all the friends were involved, no, it's like this. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. And like, no. And, you know, different opinions because it's not this type of language anyway. But it was wonderful to actually-- >> Stephen Winick: Involve them? >> Carmen Marsico: -- involve them and make them-- we make this whole thing alive. It's really great. >> Angela Rossi: And for this last album which is done and I was so happy because we just received our sample with the cover and everything covered out, beautiful. And in this album, we definitely, you know, try to be very creative with the writing aspects and, you know, and lyric wise to try to-- I just wanted to say something about the substance of the text. Sometimes you-- we try now, we're really trying to talk about personal experience and what we see and we try to just express our thoughts through the music. So it's-- the text component is important too. So we talk about immigration, the way we-- the way people are dealing with it, the way we see it [inaudible] and sometimes we don't agree, you know, and-- yeah. >> Bjorn Wennas: And then the new album is called Mediterraneo, so it's very much about the crisis of migrants and across the Mediterranean Sea. >> Stephen Winick: Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. >> Angela Rossi: So how, you know, the stories of these people that they come, you know, and leave everything behind just like we did. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Bjorn Wennas: Well-- >> Angela Rossi: To-- ^M00:47:24 [ Multiple Speakers ] ^M00:47:25 Well a lot of our ancestors, that's what I mean-- >> Bjorn Wennas: Yeah. Oh OK, OK. >> Angela Rossi: -- not me. Me, yes, so I went for better opportunities but I wasn't, you know, in despair, we weren't in despair. We are very lucky migrants, but there's different levels of-- >> Stephen Winick: Sure. >> Angela Rossi: -- you know, and today-- >> Carmen Marsico: Well, we actually talked also about our experience as immigrants because-- well, when you move somewhere else and you live far away, and when you go back, you feel kind of awkward. And, you know, people-- I mean I don't know, but like people call me the American and I'm like it's Italian, but because I've been living here for a long time. So I mean it's-- we have a lot to say. There's a lot. >> Angela Rossi: Yes. >> Carmen Marsico: Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: Well, it's also interesting because you're going back there with some traditional music from that region but then also some songs that you've written in their dialects. And so there's this sort of strange combination of foreignness and belonging that's sort of natural to what you're doing. One thing I notice is you did win an independent music award for the most recent CD, but it was in the traditional world of category even though a lot of the songs are original. >> Angela Rossi: Yes. >> Stephen Winick: Do you have any feelings about that? I mean-- >> Carmen Marsico: Well, I do have-- >> Bjorn Wennas: I'm feeling great. >> Stephen Winick: You're happy-- yeah, that's why [inaudible] I would be too. >> Carmen Marsico: I do have-- I have a comment to say. Two years ago we played for a-- for this event, small-- I mean, small event, we actually played, just me and Bjorn because she couldn't come in Basilicata in this little village and they were given some kind of recognition to people that had immigrated all over the world from the village and they came back and they say, oh, you did this, whatever. And we were asked to have sing-- to play some songs. And we did some traditional song of our self. And then I had a woman come and say, oh, this is beautiful. But I recognize some, some other I don't recognize, but-- like it's really great. So she did not thought-- they didn't think that they were not traditional. >> Angela Rossi: And she was from there. >> Carmen Marsico: And she was from there. She just thought I don't know that song, you know. And I was, oh, this is really amazing. >> Angela Rossi: It's like we're getting part of the standards now that we have the traditional-- >> Bjorn Wennas: And also I can point to the last album, it was actually nominated in Italy too as a part of like the traditional music prize that they give up there. ^M00:50:10 And also there was a bunch of music journalists particularly one, Shiro de Rosa [assumed spelling] who-- he writes song lines and he is from Naples and then-- I think. And he wrote very interesting things about like how we take Southern Italian tradition, put it on its head, mess around a little bit with it and come up with something new and he like that. You know, it is like, you know. Because, you know, any time you treat it as a-- as an object that you-- >> Angela Rossi: A museum piece, right? >> Bjorn Wennas: -- Yeah, you can't touch it, you know, it has to be a living organism and the fact that, you know, for example, Fabio, Carmen and Angela, they went here and then they write music about it, you know, about their homeland and their experiences here, in the tradition, it's all part of folk music. >> Angela Rossi: So we don't mind to be called traditional or non-traditional. >> Bjorn Wennas: Or foreigners. >> Stephen Winick: Well, thank you so much on that note. I think we can say we've talked a lot about your music and we really hope to hear more of it in the future. And we were so happy that we had you here for a homegrown concert. And we'll meet again especially when you come to hear our Alan Lomax recordings of Italian folk music. >> Angela Rossi: Thank you. >> Bjorn Wennas: Thank you. >> Stephen Winick: Thank you. >> Angela Rossi: Thank you for having us. >> Carmen Marsico: Thank you. >> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress. Visit us at loc.gov