^B00:00:13 >> Stephen Winick: So welcome. We are here at the Library of Congress on the stage of the Coolidge auditorium. It's July 25, 2019. And I'm here with the members of the Cedric Watson Trio, who just played a concert here for the American Folklife Center. The members of the trio are Desiree Champagne, Chris Stafford, and Cedric Watson in the middle. So we're going to talk to them about their music and Cajun-Creole culture and South Louisiana culture in general. So I guess we'll start with kind of the hard question because I know Cedric has been outspoken about this on his website and other places. The question of Cajun, Creole, Zydeco, all of these names that get applied to this music. What's your take on that, on, you know, what the genre is and how it's called by most people? >> Cedric Watson: Well, in general, collectively, it's all Louisiana French music is what it's all, you know. It all comes from the same roots and everything. But somewhere in the history of this music, because of it being the racially segregated south, Cajun music is more marketed towards the white American. So it's more mixed with blues, mixed with the country and things like that, whereas Zydeco or black Creole music is more catering towards the African-Americans, which is going to be like R&B, you know, what black people listen to the most. So somewhere down the line, what, like the '50s or something like that, it changed over. >> Stephen Winick: Changed over to being? >> Cedric Watson: And before that, they were playing more similar styles of music. >> Stephen Winick: So you're saying that there was kind of a divide that suddenly occurred. Is that what you mean? >> Cedric Watson: Yes, because it was more like sold to the outside or sold to people. So you had to come up with like, you know, this is for us and this is for them and this is, you know? That's how it worked. ^M00:02:11 >> Desiree Champagne: I'd like to elaborate on that. Like, I teach kids, and when I teach them, I tell them the same thing. There are differences and variations in it. And I always explain to them just think if Cajun, Creole and Zydeco were people. And I always keep this part to where it's together. I say if Cajun and Creole had a baby, it would be Zydeco. Without Cajun and Creole, there wouldn't be Zydeco. So I always make that known. Cajun and Creole, you're still kind of singing in French, but most Zydeco places, they'll sing in English and a little bit of French in there. >> Stephen Winick: Great. Thanks. So, I'll direct some questions to each of you kind of individually just in terms of personal history. So, Cedric, coming from the Houston area from Texas, how did you get involved in roots music? It wasn't the normal thing for a person your age I guess. >> Cedric Watson: Well, Zydeco or the more modern version of Zydeco, you find a lot of that in Houston, probably just as much as you're going to find around Lafayette and Opelousas. But when it comes to the old traditional folklore style, you know, of La La or old Cajun music, you're going to hear more of that in the Motherland, which is Louisiana. So growing up, every weekend, I heard Zydeco on the radio when my family would get together. And another thing is my family had trail rides where we'd all get together and ride horses and stuff and some people on wagons and would go from one town to another, the next town over, which was Sunny Side from San Felipe. And Zydeco and R&B and old school like I want to say Step N Strut, but it's actually called Swing Out. >> Chris Stafford: Swing Out. >> Cedric Watson: Yeah, Swing Out and stuff like that. That's what we heard, you know, a little country in the mix too. But that's what we heard at our trail rides. So that's how I got into Zydeco, just through like family things. >> Stephen Winick: And you did eventually move to Louisiana? >> Cedric Watson: Yes. I moved there when I was 20 years old. And where I moved, luckily, was in like the heart of like where a lot of these melodies and this music is coming from. It was just north of Eunice in a little area called Duralde. And I stayed there with the Ardoin family, who embraced me and kind of like shared a lot of their different stuff in history and songs and just different things with me, showed me around. And they would speak French half of the time with each other. So I was really immersed in it whenever I moved over because I know that in my -- Whenever they were reading about my history or whatever, they said Lafayette. Well, that was actually later. ^M00:04:48 So where I started off was it was actually deeper in the heart of where the music was from. >> Stephen Winick: Sure. And how did you end up taking up button accordion then fiddle? Those are the sort of instruments that you play today. >> Cedric Watson: I always did want to play fiddle since the age of 13. But my grandma wanted me to play guitar. She wanted me to be like more of bluesy kind of cat. And I wanted to be more of a bluesy cat on that. So I was always like I want to play fiddle. And she was like, well, I found you a guitar. You know, she probably said guitar, but I found you a guitar and I want you to learn this, a few songs on here first just to get you familiar with music in the ears and everything. So she got me some Cajun and Creole music. She got me some blues and different things. And she just gave me some things to listen to. And I just learned the chords on it pretty quick. So my ear got caught up with all that stuff like fast because of playing guitar and the chords. And then I went ahead and showed that off a little bit to her and stuff. And I found a fiddle. It was a Palatino in the Musician's Friend Magazine, and it was $75 on some kind of like Christmas special. So she ordered it for me. And I just remember like running down to the post office and I grabbed it and went home and sat on the porch and just like I tuned it like a guitar. So the way I was learning, it was tuned wrong. But I learned some tunes and everything. But then after about like seven months into it, one of my cousins who lived in College Station, she actually took classical music and knew how to tune a violin the right way. So she took my violin and played a little bit. She was like what. She couldn't play anything that she knew. So she says it's more like this. And she tuned it and showed me, and I was just like, whoa. I have to start over. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. ^M00:06:34 >> Cedric Watson: So I don't know if you ever heard of a Creole fiddler named Edward Poullard. But he's originally from Eunice, been living in Beaumont since he was a kid. And in Beaumont, there's a lot of Creole people there. And Edward Poullard, a friend of mine named J.B Adams in Houston who did a Zydeco show called Zydeco Pas Sale, he introduced me to Edward. They introduced me to most of the musicians in Louisiana, who I'm still friends with till this day, and older people like Golden Thibodaux. They were still playing traditional music that dated back since before the '50s and stuff. And that's how I got into, you know, really into it with the fiddle because once I started playing and jamming with a lot of people, kind of everybody wanted me to kind of sit in with their bands, especially the Zydeco Cats because it was missing in the zydeco, you know? There weren't many black fiddlers. I mean, when I came around playing the fiddle, there was only just like me and D'Jalma Garnier and Ed Poullard who were out there playing in front of people. Now they had a lot of old people that were still sitting around the house and stuff, and they could play fiddle. I met this one dude named Roosevelt Rashard [phonetic]. He must have been like a hundred and something years old. He was very old, like ancient. He looked like a skeleton with skin. Like, he was so old, like ancient. So his hand was chopped off like from here where his knuckles is or whatever, all the way across there. So that was all just like this. And what he would do is stick his nub between the hair of the fiddle and the bow and played fiddle, but he still played. And he was back in the days whenever Amede and all those guys and forefathers were playing. You know, so they had some old fiddlers around. But as far as in the Afro-Creole people, there was no one really doing it. So one of my main goals was with the fiddle and moving to Louisiana was to maybe somehow make it look like or show them what they been missing or what they kind of like let go of and hopefully resurrect it, you know. And a few people actually did start playing fiddle who didn't play at first, you know, from that. So it worked a little bit but not as much as I wanted it to. So I was playing with the Pine Leaf Boys for some years. And we all used to live together in the same house. And the majority of everybody in the band played a little bit of accordion, if not a lot. The majority of everyone played accordion to some extent is what I'm trying to say. So I couldn't help but really want to start playing more accordion and learn more of that because I already did kind of mess around with it. But living with them, I couldn't help but learn. You know what I mean? All the people that played -- Because three of the guys in the band actually played pretty well on accordion, like very well accomplish, whereas like, you know, but then a couple of us didn't really have accordion down. So I learned from being around accordions all the time, you know, and playing fiddle on the right-hand side of the accordion. You know, I can look at them and kind of guess what they're about to do. And that's the way I would play in order to make it sound good when we played together. And somehow it just all kind of worked out. But then after like playing the little single-row accordion, which is the traditional one, I started getting into a lot of Zydeco sounds that were more like it was just unique, something that kind of went extinct, you know, the double-row accordion. And that's when I started playing the double-row based off of some old Arhoolie records, Zydeco in the early years. >> Stephen Winick: So that's a diatonic instrument, two keys? >> Cedric Watson: It's just that you can reach more blues notes in there. It's almost like two accordions in one actually because you can play on the G accordion or the C accordion. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Cedric Watson: Which is more a standard for Cajun music. ^M00:10:09 Okay. So what I was trying to get to is this. I noticed that I knew a lot of tunes on the fiddle, my repertoire or whatever, but my creativity or writing songs was actually on the accordion. So one my -- Like he's like one of my heroes in Cajun music. His name was Michael Doucet. He's the one that encouraged me to keep writing songs on the double-row accordion. So that's what I did. >> Stephen Winick: All right. Well, we're going to take a little side trip because there's one instrument that you play that you don't play in this group. But it's the banjo. And just wondering how you came to play? Because I was chatting with the members of our Native Daughters yesterday and your name came up as someone that they liked to listen to when you used to play the banjo. >> Cedric Watson: Our Native Daughters? >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Cedric Watson: Well, that's good to know because I always saw myself as kind of like -- I mean, I play banjo and it's definitely the songs being played and you can hear and distinguish that that melody, yeah, he's playing banjo. But I never thought of myself as much -- I never thought of myself as a really great banjo player. But what got me into the banjo was back in the day when I played with the Pine Leaf Boys, one of those last years or two years within there. We played at a festival called MerleFest. And I went to this tent and they were showing this film on the origins of the banjo and like where it was from. I already knew that it came from Africa and everything because I learned this before that. But when I saw this documentary they showed, it hit me. And I say I'm not leaving this festival without a banjo. So I went ahead and got me one. And Kelly, who plays with him in a band called Feufollet, and her friend, Emma, they started me on the banjo. And then from there, I just started teaching myself. Well, and then also this fisherman from Alaska. Those are the three people that started me on the banjo. >> Stephen Winick: All right. >> Cedric Watson: And ever since then, I just been obsessed with it, like get into like minstrel tunes and things. And there's this website I get on. They have all these like 1800 like pop chart hits and these 1800 songs that people were doing back then, Jimmy Crack Corn, all these good tunes. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Cedric Watson: So I started learning those tunes instead of just the old-time and hillbilly kind of songs. And man, I love a banjo. It's pretty cool. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. And you play a gourd banjo as well, which is kind of unusual. >> Cedric Watson: I love it because it doesn't have that twang kind of like metal sound with the metal strings. It has that more of what would probably sound like, you know, the original banjo. It's more mellow harpis [assumed spelling]. >> Stephen Winick: All right. ^M00:12:41 Well, thanks. Let's talk to Desiree for a little bit about your percussion playing. So how did you get your start as a musician? >> Desiree Champagne: Percussion wasn't it. I actually started off playing a flute in fifth grade. But starting off with that, I met Cedric while we were in college and was doing an open mic night on the guitar at this pizza place. And he saw me and came up to me after I played and asked if I would collaborate with him at some point, and I told him yeah, I would be interested. And two years later, we got connected finally. And we sat down, just me and him, and played. He played accordion and I did something on the washboard, just feeling it out. And from that, like it sounded really good, just me and him. I was impressed. I was like it does sound good. So I decided to kind of go with it, give it a try. And then he did that with a full band. He kept it like one-on-one. We didn't do a full band practice until probably the second month of us all rehearsing. And then finally, we all got together and it was there immediately just because of the one-on-ones. We all sounded good. So from that point on, I was in it. >> Stephen Winick: Great. And, you know, in the group, you played both frottoir and triangle. >> Desiree Champagne: Yes. >> Stephen Winick: And it's kind of funny because we were talking about the sort of artificial divide between Cajun music and Creole music. And I think there really is a perception among most people that the triangle is pretty much a Cajun instrument and the rub board is pretty much a Creole or Zydeco instrument. So what's your take on that? ^M00:14:22 >> Desiree Champagne: Same exact thing. I explain that to the kids all the time. I say the exact same thing. I say most of the time in Cajun music, you'll see the triangle. And most of the time in Creole, you'll see either the washboard or the triangle. And then most of the time in Zydeco, you'll just see the washboard. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. Does that go back a long way do you think, or is it more modern? >> Desiree Champagne: I think the washboard may be just a little more modern towards introducing itself maybe in a little bit of Cajun music. Like, you might see a Cajun band every now and then with a little washboard in it. But I think the triangle and the washboard has always been there. Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: Cool. So, Chris, let's talk to you a little bit. How did you get your start as a Cajun-Creole musician? >> Chris Stafford: Well, I was I think eight years old very, very interested in music. And a lot of my family liked to listen to Cajun music. And I just always kind of had a super big interest and a pretty good ear ever since I was a little kid, you know, and was very interested in the accordion. My uncle had one, let me borrow it, started kind of taking lessons from Steve Riley for a while, and then eventually learned on my own by ear and then kind of started playing a bunch of different instruments after that. >> Stephen Winick: Great. >> Chris Stafford: Rest is history I guess. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. And so, we were reminiscing a little before the interview that I actually first met you I guess it was 13 years ago when you came here to the Library of Congress. And the reason for that was a research visit because some of your family had been recorded by Alan Lomax in 1934. So mention your great uncle, if you would. >> Chris Stafford: Yeah. I don't specifically know the details probably as well as -- My bandmate, Josh Caffery, has research the Lomax recordings extensively and written about it and everything, and he has told me exactly how I'm related to those people. But I can't particularly recall. Jesse Stafford I think and -- Anyway, they were singing in French on those recordings, one of the songs being Je m'endors I think. >> Stephen Winick: Yep. >> Chris Stafford: Which actually my band Feufollet had recorded, but I hadn't really realized that I was somehow related to the people that had -- You know, kind of found out later, you know. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. And it's interesting because there aren't many field recordings of that song. I think there's one other song that's kind of related. So it really is kind of uniquely related to that field recording, and you even unconsciously were working with your own families. >> Chris Stafford: Exactly. I had first heard that song from hearing Michael Doucet do it with Beausoleil. >> Stephen Winick: Right. They did a great Waltz version. >> Chris Stafford: So, you know, small world. Go figure. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. ^M00:17:18 So one thing that I noticed in listening to your concert today was that Pa Janvier is very close to the tune to Je m'endors. >> Chris Stafford: It is similar. Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. Do you think it's related? >> Chris Stafford: I don't know. It could be. I mean, probably, I mean, just as old maybe. >> Cedric Watson: That's probably what it is. >> Chris Stafford: Kind of like contemporary songs. >> Cedric Watson: Like back in those days, they probably played more minor kind of related songs than what they do today. >> Chris Stafford: Yeah. You don't really hear songs in minor keys that much anymore because, usually, the accordion has a difficult time playing those types of melodies. The accordion more lends itself to major key kind of music. >> Stephen Winick: That makes sense. Yeah. So the fiddle was the driving force back then. >> Chris Stafford: I think before the accordion, a lot of the French music in Louisiana was a lot more varied and had a lot more variety I think. The accordion kind of standardized it into Walsh's two steps and mostly all in major keys, just a few chords, you know. >> Stephen Winick: Great. ^M00:18:28 So tell us a little about Feufollet, the band that you mentioned that you play with. >> Chris Stafford: Yeah. So I started playing really young, like I mentioned earlier. And I was also in the French immersion programs. In Lafayette Parish public schools, we have French immersions. So you basically go and start in kindergarten. They just speak to you in French and you learn that way. So I was learning French and, you know, able to play accordion and sing in French and stuff. And my younger brother, Michael, started playing drums around the same time. So we started doing that and then kind of met other people our age. Oddly enough, at that very young age that we're also interested in French and stuff because of the program in school, you know. I kind of started a little band and then eventually kind of started getting good and make some records. And we've been -- I'm really the only original member left now. So we're about 20 years into it now. Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: That's great. ^M00:19:32 So how did you get connected with Cedric? >> Chris Stafford: I met Cedric. I remember meeting you at I think the Folk Roots Dewey Balfa Camp. >> Cedric Watson: And I played with [inaudible]. >> Chris Stafford: Yeah. >> Cedric Watson: I was just standing there and your mom come grab me by the wrist and like pulled me up on stage. I didn't even know I was supposed to be playing with Bois Sec at all. I think it was at the moment. >> Chris Stafford: Really? >> Cedric Watson: Yeah. >> Chris Stafford: And this was before the Pine Leaf Boys? >> Cedric Watson: Yeah, it was before that. >> Chris Stafford: Yeah. I remember seeing you. >> Cedric Watson: I was still living in Texas. >> Chris Stafford: Playing with Bois Sec. >> Stephen Winick: So did you know the Ardoin family by them? >> Cedric Watson: I knew of them and their music. And Dexter, I'd already been playing him, Bois Sec's son. But I was coming there to see Bois Sec play. And then his mom come grab me. And Lisa, to this day, she's like a mother to me, you know? She come grab me. She's like you got to play with this man. You got to play with him. She put me up there and I'm like sitting there playing with them. And I seen them before like in like documentaries or even just on the internet and stuff. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. Explain a little who Bois Sec Ardoin was just because of the video so people will know. >> Cedric Watson: Bois Sec is like the -- I used to know exactly. But I want to say he's the second or third cousin of Amede Ardoin. Yeah. And Bois Sec, him and Canray, you know, they used to play together. First it was Bois Sec's son, Lawrence Ardoin. Chris Ardoin's dad played fiddle with -- Yeah. It was his son that played fiddle with him. I don't know how it go. But I know that sometimes it would be like Canray wouldn't play with Bois Sec and it'd be his son playing fiddle with him. And then -- But basically, the Ardoin family is like one of the oldest families in Creole music. You know, they've been doing that for a while. So Canray's dad was one of the best accordion players too at the time. And I kind of got to know all them when I started playing with Dexter and just got to meet everybody through each other and everything. >> Stephen Winick: Right. So that's Canray Fontenot. Yeah. All right. >> Cedric Watson: He was one of my biggest influences on the fiddle, him and Dennis McGee and [foreign name spoken]. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. Yeah, those Dennis McGee recordings are amazing too. Yeah. >> Cedric Watson: It's haunting. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. All right. ^M00:21:42 So you guys eventually ended up forming a trio. And what's the concept behind the Cedric Watson Trio? >> Cedric Watson: I didn't even give it that name. But really, I really didn't. I would have called it Creole Trios. But really, it's just like whenever we don't play with our band or anything, the whole band, I just basically like try to call together. And it's always going to be Desiree, you know, when it comes to the percussions and everything. And Chris, you know, in the band, everyday band, Cedric Watson and Bijou Creole, you know, he would play. As a matter of fact, I think he was the first drummer. And then from there, that's when I first started playing gigs, you know, by myself. And then it would switch around. People would start, you know -- Because he's, man, one of the best guitar players you're ever going to hear in Louisiana. Don't ask him that because he ain't going to tell you [inaudible]. >> Desiree Champagne: Concept behind it though. Like the concept you come up with is La La. We break it down to like the La La style that you would go -- >> Cedric Watson: Maybe I don't understand English as well. >> Desiree Champagne: No. No. >> Cedric Watson: But yeah, the goal is to demonstrate that this music, at one time, you know, this is what you had, you know. I mean, as a matter of fact, how we played big festivals and big dance-offs and stuff. At one time, it was in a house. And just like with the mountain music, you play it for a few people. It wasn't that many people that came to listen. There was a few people at every house dance. And a lot of people didn't even dance, and a lot of people danced by themselves. And they would sit and they would listen and enjoy the songs even. So the words had more meaning back in the older days. But my concept and everything and the whole agenda and goal is don't let it die. Keep it alive and keep showing people and letting them hear what this music, the roots of it. And we can even play original songs, but still as a trio. And hopefully, it'll help in the preservation of it and encourage younger people to want to do it more often. >> Stephen Winick: And so, the larger band is Bijou Creole, is that right? >> Cedric Watson: Bijou Creole. >> Stephen Winick: And when you play with the trio, are you playing a somewhat different repertoire than you play with the larger group? >> Cedric Watson: Playing probably like 90% to 99% all traditional when I play with the trio. And then with the band, I play like -- It used to be to where it was like 80% all of my songs. But now, it's more like -- I'm kind of going through a reformation of the band. So I'm probably playing about like 40 to 50% originals now. But eventually, it'll get back to the point to where -- And the good thing about us playing the traditional songs right now is that if we ever get back to the point where we're playing predominantly originals, at least we know how to play the traditional songs together really well, so. ^M00:24:21 >> Stephen Winick: So talk about the importance of African roots to this music. >> Cedric Watson: I mean, without it, it'll still be European. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Cedric Watson: I mean, without the African roots, it'll still be like dominated by polkas and mazurkas and things like that and more like European, even the rhythm and the choice of notes, you know. There wouldn't be as much stank on it, I like to call it, [inaudible] sliding and grit, you know. So I would say that's probably one of the most important contributions to the music, you know, the African influence. I mean, you have to consider too that when blacks came to America, what we call blacks, but African sort of, you know, us, when our ancestors came to America, we didn't have any choice. We couldn't play what we used to play in our own homeland because it was basically it was against the law. So we had to figure out ways to mix like with the sounds of the people that, you know, owned us. And in most cases, we played for free. You know, back in them days, blacks were not paid to play music. If you own a musician, you were a lucky slave owner. So they would play whatever they thought probably would make them happy. But at the same time, they had to rediscover music again too because they lost what they had. So I think that's how Creole music was born. ^M00:25:39 So that's why you hear a lot of songs that sound very European, but then when it goes to a bridge, it sounds very Africanized or blackish, you know? It's because, you know, it's probably part of how the music came about, you know. I mean, think about it. You got like American music in general. You hear some similarities in European music. You hear some similarities in Caribbean and African music. But it's not that anymore. These songs were born here. So that's the way I feel to the bottom of my heart. Like, American music is our, you know. >> Stephen Winick: You also mentioned an influence that I think a lot of people don't know about in Louisiana as much, which is the Spanish influence when they, you know, were part of Spain at one point. >> Cedric Watson: Big Spanish influence. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. So do you see as the Spanish contribution? >> Cedric Watson: I mean, just as much as the French, melodically and everything, you know. And also, like, there were a lot of Spanish operas and things like that in Louisiana. And slaves were actually allowed to go to those operas. So, you know, the whole influence, there are just a bunch of different -- I think that the music has that romantic, like songs like Je m'endors, for example, Pa Janvier. A lot of that comes from those romance cultures, like French people and Spanish people, you know. So they have a big influence, I mean, even on -- In the center of France you find, in the middle of France in the countryside, a lot of old people still roll their tongues on the r's and things like that. But then you also have to consider that one time Louisiana was Spain, but the predominant language was French. So imagine how many kids had Spanish parents. You know what I mean? But they spoke French. So a lot of the tongue rolling and some words even. If you look at old Spanish compared to the old French, put them together, a lot of words match more. Like in French, they might call a goat a chevre or whatever. But then in Louisiana, they call it a cabre, you know, or in the new world, say like if you go to other like islands and stuff like that, they may say cabre or go to French Canada. But then if you look in Spanish, cabrito. So the older the languages are, the more that they're related. So they had a big influence I'm pretty sure. I mean, look at the last names down there. A lot of them are actually -- Like, you got [foreign word spoken], and obviously they're French. But you have [foreign word spoken], and [foreign word spoken] don't exist in no French phonebook. You can go to Paris and look up in the q's and try to find it. It don't exist because it was originally Spanish, like Rodrigue. They made it French, but it's Rodriguez, you know. I'm part Spanish too. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Cedric Watson: Very proud of that. >> Stephen Winick: Very cool. ^M00:28:15 So when you're not playing with the band, what music are you excited about these days? what are you listening to? >> Cedric Watson: Well, I like -- >> Stephen Winick: That goes for all of you. >> Cedric Watson: I listen to anything that's more like kind of Afro-Caribbean, stuff like that and then also a lot of like old-time music and things like that, you know, country music. When I was in high school, I liked death metal and a lot of like, you know, System of the Down, even stuff like that. It was just hardcore. I don't like hip-hop so much or rap. I just don't feel it. You know, it's not my culture. It's not what I'm from. That's about it. African music, Caribbean music, and old-time. >> Stephen Winick: Sounds good. Desiree? >> Desiree Champagne: I'm pretty much all around. I'll skip around the genres. Mostly do old-school R&B. And then I might feel a little gospel after that and then flip over to a little bit of country, not much. And then I might do a little bit of rap and then go back to some gospel. He introduced me to, what is it, bluegrass. And I wasn't like hip on bluegrass at all. Once I started going to the festivals and actually hanging with the musicians and playing with them, I was like, God, they're awesome. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Desiree Champagne: So I kind of got into bluegrass a little bit too. >> Stephen Winick: All right. >> Cedric Watson: The cool thing I found with her, she can play anything on a rubboard, even though she started off with a creole. I mean, on the road, I done seen her late-night jams with Irish people, bluegrass, all that. >> Desiree Champagne: That's fun. >> Stephen Winick: That's great. Yeah. Cool. And Chris? >> Chris Stafford: I listen to like a lot of older country, some western swing, older rock 'n roll, singer songwriters, blues, you know, pop music, Cajun, Zydeco, swamp pop. Yeah. I like a lot of stuff. >> Stephen Winick: And how does that stuff inform what you all do? ^M00:30:17 >> Chris Stafford: Well, my band, Feufollet, that I play in, it's kind of like a singer-songwriter country band. We write a lot of our tunes. And some of them are equally as informed by like country music as they are by Cajun music, you know? We're a pretty country-forward Cajun, these days, you know, at least. And a lot of the song structures could be more closely related to like how someone would write like a rock 'n roll song or a pop song than a Cajun song, some of them, and then some of them are more like Cajun. Yeah. You know, it all kind of creeps in. I think anything you listen to is going to kind of get into your subconscious somewhere and kind of appear somewhere. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. And Cedric, I noticed like you did a jure song, which is something you don't hear as much with Cajun groups these days. So that's kind of African-forward I guess. >> Cedric Watson: Big time. I mean, the way I grew up, I mean, for like holidays, even though when I was kid, I didn't like it so much, but now I appreciate it. But my family, you know, for holidays especially when my great grandparents were still living, my grandparents and my aunts and my great aunts and uncles, everybody, they'd be singing these old tunes that was very similar to jure, these [inaudible] spirituals and stuff. And that's where it touched me, the jure, even though a lot of it -- It was called testifying music, and I'm sure there's like other tunes that were not recorded by Lomax. They were probably more like testify and religious more related songs. But what people forget too is jure, a lot of it was sung in French. But the majority of the people that were singing jure music were not Catholic. They were Protestants, you know, Baptists and Pentecostals and stuff. So that's where I relate to that music, you know. >> Stephen Winick: It's interesting because, you know, the name of it suggests that it might be religious. But a lot of the times, the lyrics don't really have any religious content. Yeah. So you were singing about the snap beans not being salty, which is I guess a phrase that's really popular in Zydeco music. Could you talk about that phrase a little because people have -- >> Cedric Watson: You know, I like to disagree with a lot of stuff, you know? I love that. And I like to disagree with the norm, you know what I mean? Because like they say that the Zydeco Sont Pas Sale, and I would suggest that you would talk to somebody like Blake Miller or Barry Ancelet and, you know, even older black musicians that's been around that phrase longer. You know, I'm not the one really to give you the real answer. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Cedric Watson: But they say that it comes from -- It was almost like a way of saying how are things going. You know, like [foreign language spoken] in French, you say [foreign language spoken]. And [foreign language spoken] would mean that the snap beans ain't salty or the beans ain't salty. And that means things ain't going so good, you know. >> Stephen Winick: Hard times. >> Cedric Watson: But I never heard a song called Zydeco Sont Sale. So maybe someone should come up with one of those. >> Stephen Winick: That's right. >> Cedric Watson: And sing about why is things going good and what do you love about life. And there's some people either say that la Zydeco -- This is something that's new to me. An old friend of mine back home told me this. He said that back in the old days, when slaves would get together, they had gourds and they'd put beans in the gourds, and they would sing jure music and shake the gourds. And that's how they come up with something like that, part of where the Zydeco come from. >> Stephen Winick: Interesting. >> Cedric Watson: Some people say that they were sitting around singing and snapping beans. But if you look at Africans, I'm sure everything they did, they were probably singing. They probably were churning like butter singing, you know. There's no telling what, you know -- But when he told me that, I thought about it and I said, dude, that makes so much sense, you know. >> Stephen Winick: And, of course, one of the things that people say is that the genre name of Zydeco comes directly from that phrase, which was sung so often in these Eurasians. But it kind of can't be proven really. >> Cedric Watson: And then in the Caribbean, you find people singing about Zydeco too, these older [inaudible]. And some people believe that that was metaphoric for like one's testicles, you know. So you just never know what they really singing about. >> Stephen Winick: Right. Right. ^M00:34:19 Well, on that note -- ^M00:34:22 [ Laughter ] ^M00:34:27 >> Cedric Watson: I was going to say something that sound pretty painful, like snap. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Cedric Watson: Snap beans. But yeah. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Cedric Watson: So many different, you know -- What's the word for it? So many different theories. >> Stephen Winick: Theories and interpretations of that. Yeah. >> Cedric Watson: But I find that within this culture, there's only been a few people that really explain it. And I think some of them made that shit up. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. It is possible. It is possible. And we actually have hard Barry Ancelet here, and I think he did talk about it during his. You referred us to him. You can find the video of Barry Ancelet on the Library of Congress website as well talking about that. So yeah. So, I think we've covered most of what we wanted to. So one last question for you, which is what's next for Cedric, for the trio and for your groups you think? ^M00:35:20 Can start with Cedric. >> Cedric Watson: I'm a little pessimistic. So let's get them to say it first, whatever [inaudible]. Okay, look. This has been a struggle for me, like playing music period. Now it got a lot to do with me just being unorganized and not really knowing much about the music business. And then being that's it's cultural and it's part of your heritage, you feel like it's almost like being gospel, almost like making a living off of being a preacher because it's like you got this side that's like the God side and you got this side where you have to think about the physical world and the money. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Cedric Watson: You know? So it's kind of like it's in between everything. So with me, I have a lot of mixed feelings about it. And I don't want to really talk about like the real words I'm feeling. I don't think America want to hear that. But other than that, I'm just going to keep on trying to forge my way and keep doing what I'm doing and keep myself surrounded by musicians that can influence and my friends and make me feel good. That's what makes the music good in the long run. And other than that, I ain't saying nothing else. >> Stephen Winick: All right. Well, we certainly wish you all the best because we enjoyed the concept earlier today and we know you're capable of continuing with great things. So we really hope to see more from you. >> Desiree Champagne: Thank you. >> Cedric Watson: Thank you.